For Sandi2

[sandi2]

all I want is for her to know what she has done. You tell me that she already knows and thats good enough for me.

I wanted to make sure you understood what I was saying. Anyway, let me say this......she doesn't see things on the level that you see it. Even feeling guilty "now" will not be the depth that she will probably feel later. I don't think she can fully see or know what she is doing to her family right at this particular time......or that she cares enough, right now. A WAW in an A is about the most selfish thing there is. And, remember that she is in a very thick fog and that prevents her from thinking logically. But it doesn't help for you to point it out to her, see what I mean? That just makes her fight you harder.

Even if she "knows" what she's doing....it does not outweigh her desire to be with OM. That fogged up desire that has her brain messed up clouds all her judgement.

The main thing I wanted you to realize was that she will not get away with doing wrong to others. She won't get through this without experiencing guilt, but you have to give everything time. We all suffer the consequenses of our bad decisions, but when we do our loved ones the way she is doing.....you can count on it, payday is coming someday.

So, I just wanted to make sure I didn't cause you to misunderstand what I was saying, okay?

[elscotto]

Sandi, believe me I have many bouts of tough love at the hands of people that care about me or maybe like you, care enough about others to make a response. I was in no way offended by and appreciated your comments.

What are your thoughts wrt Puppy Dog Tails and what and how to handle the kids and what they know. I don't want to do (more) damage but also feel like I should say something to them. I have even wondered what I would say should they just flat ask me about it or bluntly ask me something like "did mom cheat on you?"

This affair started last summer when I sent my kids, her, her parents, and my mother to Asia as a part of the martial arts club they are in. I'm pretty sure that's where a connection--emotional and most likely physical happened so we are basically 7 mos into the affairs beginning.

I don't know how long before it runs its course-if it ever does--stranger things have happened I suppose. It just seems improbable with everything that is working against it. People tell me that I stand a pretty good chance of having alreay moved along by the time that it starts losing intensity and that I should prepare myself for a potential attempt at rconciliation. I was pretty brutal with her in the speed and terms of the divorce so my sitch may be different than most vanilla cut and dried divorces.

Who knows-here I sit typing and mentally considering whether I'd ever be with her again if the situation presented itself after what she's done to me so I guess its not out of the realm of reason that she might look past the divorce settlement and someday not hate me.

She told me she agreed to the terms of the divorce-she just didn't realize all the nuance, tax law, and ramifications to what she agreed to. She also agreed to no maintenance and child support because of split custody but 2 mos into the divorce was complaining to me that my costs for the children had gone down "because you have always supported their entire costs and now you only pay half." Remember--she was a stay at home mom before we started opening some businesses in 2005. I have always had high paying jobs and I quit the corporate world in 2005 to open the first business with her. We lived out of savings and financed the businesses opening for 2.5 years until I thought things looked shaky int he economy and hopped back in just as a safety net in case the businesses didn't prosper the way we wanted.

Soooooo she walks out with a business that makes 100k a year and 700k in cash, no child support, no maintenance, and half the equity in the house that I paid her cash for. I put her through an MBA program while she was a stay at home mom, she hasn't had a W2 in 16 years, and is now on her own with the business she took from the divorce.

Thanks all for your observations!!

[sandi2]

What are your thoughts wrt Puppy Dog Tails and what and how to handle the kids and what they know.

The children can "see" her living with OM and she doesn't even try to keep her hands off of him when the D10 goes over there. I think you need to answer any questions they ask you as honest as you know how....without butchering their mother. She is doing a good job of that all by herself. She sounds like a real piece of work! But she is their mother, so try to be careful in choosing your words when you talk about her. I'm not saying to defend her or make her sound better than what she is. Tell them honestly what you know to be the truth, but no name calling, etc. They really need a good and decent person as a role model in their lives.

[elscotto]

Hmmm I think Sandi you might have the wrong sitch here. I don't have a D10--I have 3 sons and they ARE aware that their mother is dating him but she doesn't know they know.

She used to be such an all star mother. Its terrible that she has gotten the way she has but I do feel like she is starting to become a better mom again just because she is not so eager and intent on shoving them off at my house on Sundays when they are due to be with me for the week.

I do always speak positively about her. To the best of my knowledge she does about me too.

Right now she is a real piece of work but didn't always used to be that way--good summary. I am careful though in realizing that the person I see and know today is not the person I knew from yesterday and I am careful not to confuse the two.

Thats it for now. I am just trying to be ultra cool and maintain distance, avoid any pitfalls and name calling etc...No losing my temper and really no real time interaction when I can avoid it.

[sandi2]

Oh, shoot......I did it again! Sorry!

[elscotto]

Oh no worries. You are an instrumental resource to so many on the board because of your ability to cut to the chase even if its something people don't want to hear.

Thanks gain--I'd still love your input though when you get a sec.

Take care.

[sandi2]

It was very hard for me to reach a place where I could tell a LBH that he should tell his children that their mother had an affair. It was so hard on me b/c I knew how it felt to be in the mother's shoes. But, I'll have to tell you that if your children are old enough to ask questions about it, then you need to be as truthful as possible without completely destroying their mother.....if that makes any sense. A mother who is having an affair is going to hurt herself without any help from the dad, so he doesn't have to call her names or tell the kids what a bad mother she is (not that you would....just an example).

I do believe that the LBS should be very careful how they tell their children what has happen....and especially young children. I'm not saying to cover up the truth, but handle it carefully.

[Gardener]

Hijack Alert

Sandi,
Your thoughts please on my recap of recent, uncharacteristic moments of the original non-alien Mrs. G. surfacing twice right before D.

Surviving the Big D
Soaring Solo/Gardener
Yesterday, 3/3 @ 8:07pm
Got replies from six of the men, only one woman: Gypsy.
Would really like to know - as a woman and as an almost WAW - what you think might have been happening here.
Thanks.

End Hijack Alert

[elscotto]

Wow. Sandi, you and others just seem to be soooooo sure that this will not work out so well for her. I have to think you and others who seem to provide me wise advice are right. It just takes so much faith to sit on my hands and take the high road. I haven't always done this through this past 6 months and there are times I wish I could take back but the more I get advice like this the more I find strenght to just do the right thing and be cool. Shoot--I am guessing that if I continue to do this it will accelerate recovering from the marriage as well and probably will make the point of whether she suffers her decision moot anyway. I guess I know and hear more frequently that paeople matter of factly refer to her affair. Whatever--it took me a while to decide that it was not a reflection on me and that people weren't looking at me and saying what a loser. I decided they were probably looking at her and saying what a dumba$$ and how could she leave a great life?

Its easy to say but hard to start doing but my saving grace is good friends who have listened to me for a lot of minutes, working out and exercising, and recently I have added religion to the mix--not because I am religious but because its hard for me to sit in a church service and dwell on bitter and angry thoughts if I pay attention to the message.

I hope I can log in and offer some advice to others in the future. I have done huge complex business deals, manipulated incredibly complicated situations, built businesses, and other things that seem challenging in life but never imagined the wallop this hits you with--never. We'll all survive though--and prosper--if we want to.

[Golfgirl1]

Wow! Your sitch went fast, how are you doing?

It's the lies that hurt the most for me. I want the divorce to be over so I can move forward and begin healing, but I also know to protect myself financially. I don't trust and I've hired a very competent attorney, so hopefully next week at mediation we can settle, mail the stuff in and I'll be divorced by April 15.

I'm sorry for your kids and all they've had to deal with and continue to have to deal with. I'm a teacher and I see it time and time again. The good news is that kids are so resilient and seem to handle things much better than adults.

I was off the board for several months and just came back on to get some support as my divorce winds up. So many people here have given such great advice and support. Happiness will happen again for the both of us, I know!