Am I in the right place? Need advice and support.

[Wholeagain]

I'll repeat don't bring up R talk, trial separation, who should leave or whatever. Especially with a "turtle"!

Why don't you ask him back to the bedroom, if that's what you want.

[Clife]

Hi Wholeagain,
thanks for the response.

I bring up relationship talk once every few weeks. I do it to try to move us along but im getting the picture that that is not the way to go.

I have asked him back into the bedroom, several times...he's under no illusions that thats where i want him to be. He knows how i feel about him and that i want us to be a loving couple eventually.

Its the mixed messages that are pulling me down.

Im going to stay with my sister this weekend, so he will have all the space he needs. I act very loving and caring towards him, always asking how he is and about work. I say he can have the bedroom and i'll sleep downstairs, offer him cups of tea, to run him a bath. He always says no, then goes and does it himself.

Im at a loss and losing hope and my self worth. But im hanging in there for all our sakes.

Thank you Wholeagain. How are you btw?

[rr22]

You sound only very superficially remorseful to me. You spend a lot of time in your post listing what he did to drive you to your own CHOICE to have an affair. Yes, you admitted you should have worked on you instead, yet still you spend a lot of your first post detailing HIS faults. Now you are upset he will not come back to you quickly. I had much smaller faults in my R and did not commit adultery. Still, my H holds on to grudges over sore words from the past. What have your really done to show remorse and make amends? You are threatening to kick him out for not meeting your emotional needs, yet recently you were f----g some other dude. You need a reality check about the level of injury you have caused. Your husband, though distant, seems quite charitable in comparison.


I'm starting to wonder if you have had the wrong kind of counseling. Some type of counselors allow you to continue to blame your spouse and not own your behavior by empathisizing too much with your "pain" in the relationship. Your spouse is not responsible for all your emotions you ever had. There were other ways to meet your loneliness. If this is your case, do more reading on your own or find a new counselor. Adultery is always a choice, not something a distant husband drives you to. You could have asked for a divorce instead.

I'm only bringing out this two by four because if you really want this M to work, it will have to be on his timeline. You messed up. Now you have to spend years fixing it and be willing to. Doesn't sound like you are. It just sounds like the other man maybe dumped you or the fun of the affair got old or guilt got to you or you were just doing it to be vengeful.

[Clife]

I was not F*****G some other dude as you so nicely put it. We never had sex. Im making no excuses for what i did, it was wrong, and i hate what ive put my H thru.

But 9 years of emotional distance is very damaging to a relationship. I was not listing his faults, i was detailing the relationship as it was. I was in effect a single mum for 9 years and thats what i was describing.

I need no reality check, i'm aware of the intense pain ive caused. Everything i do is to make amends, everything.

[Clife]

Hi Onthemountaintop,

Wow, thanks once again for the really constructive reply. It was uplifting to read because you are making me see things clearly.

I especially like the piece about going to sit with him. I haven't done so but have really wanted to. You know that feeling when your arms ache because you so much want to hold the person you love? I literally have to stop myself from trying to hug, hold or kiss him. Sorry that sounds insensitive given your situation and i apologise.
I guess the reason i don't want to do that is fear of rejection. Trying not to pressure him and worry over what the children will think. I don't want to confuse them. Or make my H feel uncomfortable.

Do you think I should stay this weekend and practise my 180's. We've had a couple of texts that have seemed to put us backwards this week, should i send him an email explaining why i sent the texts? They weren't nasty but maybe a little whiney, given that he didn't contact me after the fire with the oven and the brigade flashing outside our home! I had hoped he would show some concern, if not for me then for the children at least.

I will read your sitch tonight, and don't worry, i understand how emotional people get, and the words that come from hurt.

I have the utmost respect for the many people on these boards and the challenges and heartbreak they face, emotionally.
From experience, my dad abused my mum, my brother and my sister but he never hit me. I simply lived in fear with 'when will it be my turn'. I've forgiven him, and understand that he's a very mixed up person, that i feel sympathy for him in a way. As do my siblings. But it never took away from the fact that it happened and i know that that is what most people here and my H face with the sitches. The fact that altho they want their partners back, the pain of what happened is with them every day.

Take care, Onthemountaintop.

Sorry, i went off on a tangent there!

[rr22]

EA or PA, you emasculated your husband for quite a long time by having a quasi-sexual relationship with another man while you were married. He is not going to get over this quickly because it would be easier for you if he did. There's a lot of good books about EAs and how they are as damaging as PAs and, in many cases, worse than one night stands because they involve a chosen pattern of deception that takes place over time and also an addiction to getting needs met from a fantasy life.

You may know you've caused pain, but do you know what a true apology, remorse, and amends look like to your H? Some partners' apologies come across as "make me feel better for what I did to you." That could be why he's not responding. That or time. There are many good books on communicating remorse in a way that others can "hear" and recognize as real. Beating yourself up in your own mind does not communicate remorse. It does not show evidence of commitment to change. It also can come across as disrespect to ask an emasculated, wounded spouse to "get over it" on your timeline. There are many good books on this topic.

Still, it was a choice and you have breached his trust. How can he be sure you will not make that choice again if he does not act or perform in a way you want him to? Many people prefer to be in relationships with people that, even if they are not perfect (or distant, or whatever) for however many years, their partner would drag them to marital therapy or just plain divorce them before choosing to emasculate them. Maybe your H is one of those. Only time will tell if he will ever trust you again.

Maybe you should not even try to fix your M because of basic personality differences. Maybe he will always feel distant and you will choose EAs or whatever again instead of something constructive. Maybe that is what he is thinking about. There are people one these boards (and I'm not one of them) who have undergone this situation multiple times from their partners. Maybe he fears becoming one of those men.

[rr22]

I think you should go in the infidelity threads with a helmet on and ask for advice there. There are people on that thread who are piecing things back together. So some of their wives must have done something right to communicate they were capable of change. Some men there might be willing and able to give you better insight and advice.

[Onthemountaintop]

some other dude as you so nicely put it. We never had sex.

To me, that makes it different, but equally painful and very hard to get over. Does your H see it differently (has he shown evidence that he can forgive you yet?)

[Onthemountaintop]

[quote=Clife] Do you think I should stay this weekend and practise my 180's.

He did show concern - he offered a new oven. That is a 180, perhaps, understanding that if he reacts differently than you, it might be a guy thing that drives you nuts but is naturally to him (or me). Excessive texts could be overwhelming him.

Your personal sitch with your dad might be partly leading to a communication problem with him. That's the realm of a good IC!

Should you stay? That is up to you. I think leaving tells him you can't handle being in the house with him and only encourages him to feel unwanted and go. He might need some time alone, but he gets that each week overseas. More separation wouldn't necessarily help.

R22 mentioned that your sitch might belong on infidelity. It may. The issues he's dealing with aren't just piecing the marriage together. I'm guessing your choice of this thread is because you want to do that. It doesn't seem like that is where your M is at right now, with a possible separation looming.

You didn't answer my question - did you tell him clearly that you don't want the separation (without conditions, that you don't want it to happen). Also, did you take ownership over the request (not "I felt you pushed me" but "I felt hurt and wanted to push your buttons, sorry")

[Clife]

Hi Onthemountaintop,

I agree, an EA is as painful as a PA, ive never denied this to my H.
I want to stress i have been married for 17 years, we have been together for 22 years and i have never become friends with another man in this way before. Or ever intend to.

Maybe we are not in piecing, but we are in the same house, my H comes to 'our' bed and we spend every weekend together. Piecing has to start somewhere. But if you think i would be better moving to Infidelity then i will make the leap across.

I don't send many texts, not because i don't want to but i do not want to pressure him. I tend to reply to his texts when he sends them, or when i want him to know about the children.

I did send him an email today, owning everything. (i've always owned my responsibility in this.)I did explain what i believe led to my actions, our history is long and complicated.
Our lifestyle over the last few years had become exhausting. For some time we had no money, or every penny went to pay debts. I had to get spare change from the kids money boxes to buy food. Phone calls demanding money. No heating, no car, many things and all the while trying to keep it from the children, family and friends. It was very isolating and the one person i wanted to turn to was away. I carried on knowing that we were in this together but after a while it didn't feel like that, because he stopped talking completely. He hasn't admitted it but i believe he is also depressed.
I didn't say in the email any of this, but simply the truth, that i was exhausted and low.That he didn't deserve any of what i put him thru, that he had and always does work hard for all of us and that he needs to take as long as he needs to get past my betrayal. That i love him for his strength and integrity over these last few months. And that his patience and perseverence under such intense pressure has been an inspiration to me. I also said that i in no way want him to leave. I said that I have said this because I have felt guilt ridden and sad and that it's not his responsibility to rescue me from that. I need to pull myself out of the guilt and work towards making us all happy. I entitled the email Sorry because I truly needed to apologise for the texts I sent the other night after the fire. They weren't abusive, but i was speaking from fear and i would have placed pressure on him when he's under enough pressure as is.

I didn't expect an email back from my H as he doesn't usually respond to anything of a personal nature, before the separation or now. But he replied. Thanking me for taking all the responsibility for our mess and stressing that he doesn't blame me in any way. That he held some of the blame for being unaproachable, distant and unable to express his feelings. He knew i was struggling but was unable to help because he was in denial.
He's going to make time for us to discuss our issues. And this time i know he means it. The message was short but loaded. And he signed off with 3 kisses!

Just seeing that and reading 5 sentences has given me the boost to stay home this weekend and face whatever comes. He deserves that.

R22, I will hunt out those books. I have a long list that i want to read but these will be a priority, Thank you.

thanks for responding both of you. I appreciate it.