Doing hard time on the MLC chain gang.

[figgeroni]

My advice would be
at this point
to stop treating you daughter like she is an adult
and by that I mean
she needs to not be involved in her mothers love life by your hand or hers

she doesn't need to continue to know this and what she does know should be dealt with with her counselor

teenagers emotions are huge and right in y our face
hence Romeo and Juliet
adults have more self control (we hope) and can be more rational...we have a better vocabulary and can express ourselves differently

My ex was vile and wicked
I told my kids he was sick
sick in a way medicine wouldn't help

they are older now and they still don't know the nitty gritty
nor do they need to

and yes
you don't have to tell the whole truth when your daughter asks you something

why are you home early can be because some stuff came up so you decided to come home (the truth)
change the topic
if she presses it is ok to answer that it is something that is between mom and dad and she doesn't need to know about it...it is adult stuff

and Jack...thank you for clearing up what you meant
I beleive we all would walk through fire for our children and sometimes that means (usually that means) we have to humble ourselves to do what is best for all
if we truly did that more, I believe more healthy adults would develop

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Miss,

There ARE reasons we do not involve our children in this. And you are experiencing first hand why.

There is also a reason it is generally not a good idea to keep others outside the situation informed of every little detail...like the neighbors. If she comes back, they are going to be judging her.

Now you can say, all I did was initially tell my daughter what was going on...

Yes you did.

You won't lie to your children.


We all lie to our children. It is for their beneift. We lie to protect their innocence. We lie to protect them.

You don't?

I tell D13 I had to run to the store and will be right back

You did right there.

The store was NOT the reason you went out. You may have convinced yourself you needed something but that is just justification of what you said after the fact.




STOP involving your daughter.

There is a huge reasons we do not lean on our children for support, because our weight will cripple them.


BTW your IC...sucks, get a new one that supports marriage.

[MHL]

Fig & Jack,
Have stopped and there has been some other crap that has transpired that I am no longer letting my daughter know about. The damage has been done and I do accept responsibility for where things are at.

The wood here is that I have made a sitch worse than it needed to be and now have the added harm to my daughter to deal with for years maybe.

All this being said, I am still optimistic about things and am daily seeing positive baby steps in the things my W is saying and doing.

Jack, your analogy on the weight thing is perfect, Thanks.

The IC is her IC, I had a different IC at the same facility. We have never had real joint MC where everyone is being honest. The 2 times met all together ME, MY W, HER IC, MY IC. My wife was lying through her teeth to all of us and her IC kept talking down to me. I think unless I find Solution Oriented Brief Therapy MC, I am done with Counseling. I have read enough in the last 7 months to know what was wrong with me and what I needed to do/ not do in a Marriage or any Relationship for that matter.

[MHL]

Okay, someone hit me with a 2x4 or stop me or something.

I just spent the last 3.5 hours with my W, granted an hour and half was in court order child custody mediation orientation. The first video we were forced to watch was of kids of divorce sharing the total devastation of thier world because thier parents split up. Hard to watch but sitting there I am thinking is this getting through to my W sitting right next to me.

Here is the first WOOD opportunity for you guys: Were walking out of the courtroom together and were out 30 minutes early and I ask, "Do you want to sit down and talk?"
She without hesitation says, " sure."
This I know is not letting her come to me but we are having great conversations, when I initiate. I "feel" like she wants me to initiate and she is receptive, I am just trying to limit it, the time was available which does not come up that often and we were already together.....so we went to local coffee shop and talked for over an hour.

Am I stupid or what??

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Why are you stupid?

Because you approached her?

Sometimes your gut instinct IS right.

You had a 'good' talk. Good job.

I am willing to bet, that most of the time...little DBing lessons were floating around in your head.

[trustingfaith]

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You have had good talks with her. If you asked and she was not receptive and you pushed, that would not be good. You are mirroring her reactions. Sounds good to me!

[MHL]

Second, opportunity to knock some sense into me, this may take a 2x6 instead of a 2x4.

So tonight she is supposed to take S9 out to eat or back to her place, Tues and Thurs. D13 has soccer practice and I have been taking her and S9 out to eat all three of us together. Tonight would have been the same except soccer practice got canceled due to weather. So she took S9 out to eat and I stayed with my D13 at home for leftovers.

Wood opportunity: She talked about taking S9 to local Family Sports Bar, (theres an oxymoron) really great place actually. I said "wow I am jealous" and then went on to say "Wife, you know they have Coronas on special tonight???" Did not get a yes or a no just a smile.

No worries, she just walk in with S9 from dinner and the roads are slushing up, it is snowing like a blizzard outside. So much for living in the South!!!! I jokingly tried to get her to sit down for a drink her but she was fearful of the weather, so she left, no hugs but I told her I enjoyed our talk and she said she did too. I said "really" she responded "yes". I guess the day she does not give a chit about the weather will be more than a baby step.

This is from the coffee shop.
FWIW, the talk is good but and we talk about past and how we related to each other then and how things are now. She still does not "Feel" like working on the M. I told her I respect her "feelings" on that and shut up. I think I scored some points but it is true, I do respect her "feelings" now as opposed to the past and that was mostly what I talked about.

She talked about how the "little girl" in her is afraid to say what she wants to say and has been for a long time. My W also said that she is afraid to tell me things because we would disagree. I said can I take a stab at some of the things?
M B/c we are separated you don't see a problem with R with OM and I consider it adultery.
W Yes
M Not a problem, we just disagree.
W I also think we would disagree on what D13 knows and how much you told her, I don't think that was right on your part.
M You are right. (it was hard not to say anything else)

That was as contentious as the conversation got the rest was Relationship 101 discussions. Time flew by and I was the one to say we have to feed the kids. I think we could of gone on for hours.

Trying to keep expectations low. And they are but everyday there are more baby steps, no professions of love and reconciliation but just talk right now.

Someone fill up my PATIENCE tank I am running low.

[MHL]

Why are you stupid?

Because you approached her?

Sometimes your gut instinct IS right.

You had a 'good' talk. Good job.

I am willing to bet, that most of the time...little DBing lessons were floating around in your head.

Validation, Listening without interupting, Validation, Eye Contact, Validation, Smiling, Validation.........Did I forget to say Validation?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Someone fill up my PATIENCE tank I am running low.

Burn something for fuel. Anger, hope, hate, something burns.

[MHL]

TF,
I guess I am waiting or wanting her to say "lets talk".

I don't expect her to come back and fall on her knees and say "I am so sorry, I love you, always have, forgive me".

At some point she will have to be the one to start to initiate this stuff or at least admit in the conversations we have that she is leaning towards working on it. Right?

Another point I should add here is that I fully believe she is involved with OM#1 at least emotionally and possibly physically every now and then, he lives 2 hours away. No proof and I am not looking just call it "gut feelings".