Doing hard time on the MLC chain gang.

[MHL]

The only lumber I'd be bringing to the field is the following concern.

You love your daughter and you love your wife.

Your Daughter's reactions, emotions, control she has on you, the whole ball of wax...

Your situation is going to be tougher than many here.

To put simply, a situation that is FAR from simple.

Where does your loyalty lie?

Jack,
I can say I have given this much thought and have reached this conclusion, especially after the phone conversation I had with the W on the way home about an hour ago. (more on that later along with the problem between my W and D)

My loyalty lies with my family and without my wife there is no family. Additionally, God tells us our spouses come before our children. I think by placating my W in hopes of saving our M will be understood by my D13 one day. My daughter is actually very mature and I would say she has the maturity of a 16 or 17 year old. My D13 thinks I should kick mom to the curb for good and has made that clear to me, she is starting to understand though that you don't throw away 16 years that easily.

If me and the W can patch this thing up then the issue with my D13 becomes easier. "Look Dad forgives Mom, it is okay, you can too". Right now I have not seen significant movement by either Mom or D13 to say I need to put one's wishes over the other's, but that day is coming.

I try to balance both of their needs and my desires but I can see after today I might need to commit one

[MHL]

Fig,
You are right, there are details here that I will finish putting together so everyone can see what I am dealing with. It is messed up to say the least.

In a nutshell, D13 knows everything. OM#1, OM#2, ONS, saw picture on FB that Dumb A$$ friend of my W posted of W hanging on random guy at a bar, and the worst part is the lying over and over again. I can't tell you the number of times my D13 has completely nailed my W in a lie while they were going at it.

In the words of my D13's Therapist, "D13 has a pretty good reason to never talk to Mom again". This is not the Therapist's goal here at all but within the context of justification of my D13's feelings, Damn right she has a right to be mad with her Mom.

Still, we can overcome some pretty nasty stuff people do to us, even our parents. I have realized that I can forgive my W for what she has done/ is doing even to our kids, and I do have compassion for her.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I take offense at the LBS rallying cry that you mention jack because I would do anything for my children as would you
certainly walk through hell and back without question
but part of being a good parent is not giving them more power than they can handle and I don't see MHL to be saying that he is giving the adult reigns to a 13 yr old

Fig,

I would walk through hell for my boys, I know you would for yours, and several others kids as well.

I think I wasn't clear enough...imagine that.

That Rally cry of the LBSer.

I mean the LBS Says that they can handle all this DBing crap, stand, sit, dance a jig for their marriage...whatever.

But the ones with kids...they have an out.

Once they start thinking that their spouse infidelity has somehow affected their kids...Wam Bam thank you mam! I no longer have to DB, nor should I!!!!

That is what I am talking about.

"I could do this, except she was mean to the kids yesterday that vile back biting bicth! They actually saw her WAVE the the OM in the store! I cannot imagine the mental dmage that did to them!"

Make more sense?

Miss,

You daughter MAY act like a 16 or 17 year old...
she is till 13.

My kids act older than they are, they have too to get my jokes. : )

They are still only 14 and 9 though.

[Lostforwords]

MHL-& Jack & OP & Mach

What I am about to suggest is way off the DB trail......but your daughter's exposure to the affairs almost seems unprecedented. So her anger is definitely understandable since she is just a child. With your daughter just being a child, she probably has little idea or even comprehension of what you are doing. To her (and let's say most people until they see that works) is probably as foreign to her as people from Poland.

So what about educating her? I would definitely want more opinions here (and definitely her therapist) but give her a chance to maybe understand the complexity of what is going on. Usually we can beat around the bush with kids....but she knows EXACTLY what is going on with the affairs. So why not let her read some material on MLC. I know it is risky....but a big step is understanding.

I am not saying that she should read DB/DR, but maybe a nice little online blog about MLC. It seems as though she see's her mother intentionally hurting her (example-freezing in car seat) and maybe seeing that might not be the case could be good for her.

Just remember how you felt before you came here.....she hasn't had that opportunity to heal with understanding.

[MHL]

"I could do this, except she was mean to the kids yesterday that vile back biting bicth! They actually saw her WAVE the the OM in the store! I cannot imagine the mental dmage that did to them!"

Make more sense?

This is the conudrum I find myself in is that my daughter has expressed to me that she could forgive what Mom has DONE in the past but Mom has to stop doing it, meaning slutting around town and pursuing OM.

Everytime, my S9 calls my W to say goodnite and she does not answer or return the call, we all know what she is doing. I stop short of telling her this b/c that would be controlling and it is simply not my place. D13 has had some knock down drag out yelling matches with my W and has put this point to her. Jesus said "I wash of your sins go forth and sin no more" these are the words my D13 used with my W. D13 has the capacity to forgive but wants my W to do the right thing. What D13 doesn't understand is that my W, her Mom is going to do what she FEELS like doing no matter what and it is are job to help her FEEL like being a mother and a Wife again. Changing Feelings and changing actions are two different things. I have told D13 that we could impose our restrictions on Mom but if she does not FEEL like doing the things we would like her to do they won't last.

This is where every sitch is different, my W is one stubborn red headed b!t&h when it comes to arguing, and I wouldn't have her any other way, it is part of the challenge IMO. When she gets backed into a corner she starts attacking and this is what she has done with my D13. D13 is right on every level but then my W pulls out the "I am your Mother card and you are only 13". This is the tough part for me, it doesn't even take a 10 year old to sort this out, who's right, who's wrong blah, blah blah. What I have learned in my journey is that it really doesn't ucking matter, it is all about how my W FEELS after the point is proven. If she doesn't feel good about herself after I slam her with my logic, I still lose BIG TIME, only took me 19 years to figure that one out.

Now I have to try to tell my D13, who by the way is a young woman also, that sometimes being right can be the wrong way to go and it is more about how we feel and that is a big ole grey area about the size of Texas...ehh hmm.. I mean Alaska.

[MHL]

lost,

There is actually a book that I need to get called "Parents who Cheat" Ana Nogales. I read through it early on in my sitch and decided it was not for my D13 but I need to revisit the ideal. The other part of me wants to insulate my D13 and somehow turn back the hands of time and give her back her innocence but that is gone forever. My D13 has very much "been abused" I sought out a specialist in this area, she deals with children that are abused physically and mentally. On October 30th my W, mentally abused my daughter by telling her about one night stands, OM#2, being addicted "to attention from men" and she could not help herself. (D13 knew she meant "addicted to sex).

BTW, Thank you Tiger for your timing in my sitch, let me tell you about the drive by media and his stupid A$$. Everytime the news is on briefly I might add (I try to turn it off, but D13 sometimes watches) when that clinic in Hattiesburg, MS D13 says "thats wherec mom needs to go".

To Jack's credit and you guys don't know all of it, my sitch is extraordinary to say the least. I take it a day at a time and I am actually optimistic that it is going to work out. There have been many baby steps, even tonight my W mentioned "working on it" unprompted by me, of course she was saying that the only reason she would not work on it is b/c she thinks I haven't changed. Next sentence she said "You have changed", I said nothing just kept listening, Baby Steps.

With your daughter just being a child, she probably has little idea or even comprehension of what you are doing. To her (and let's say most people until they see that works) is probably as foreign to her as people from Poland.

I think my approach here with respect to my daughter is to get her to a point where she can deal with her anger and other emotions. I have given the her Therapist the 6 stages thread and I was going to give her some books but to be honest her Therapist does not even comprehend why I have not given up on my W. This is the path we chose, lonely as it may be. It is my goal and I think my D13's Therapist understands that my decision is just that, MINE and that my D13 does not have to agree but can learn to accept it and live with it. I am not so sure that educating my daughter on MLC is the route but I understand what you are saying and actually there was a moment last week.

I was taking my daughter to school and I said something to the affect that

"I know you don't want to see you Dad get hurt but I know what I am doing and I know what your Mom is doing, she is not fooling me. I still love her and she is very confused right now and the things she has done/ is doing right now are terrible but we have the power to forgive and the choice to Love and I chose to Love your Mother. I think you do to and if you give her time the Mother you know and Love will come back."

Wine break, you guys are awesome have one on me!!!!

[bradley11]

There have been many baby steps, even tonight my W mentioned "working on it" unprompted by me, of course she was saying that the only reason she would not work on it is b/c she thinks I haven't changed. Next sentence she said "You have changed", I said nothing just kept listening, Baby Steps.

right back atcha MHL.

sounds like you are doing well.

[MHL]

Posting this in response to Jack's request for the sitch between my D13 and my W. It is long, sorry.

Let's see if I can spin the sitch with my D13 and W without catching too much wood. My W is the major factor here but I do accept responsibility for some of the knowledge my D13 has about my W's affairs and promiscuous activities.

August 25,2009 Dumb a$$ day for me, day I threw my W out of the house. When wife came back to house with Sherriff's deputies in tow, D13 was with her, D13 had been at soccer practice. D13 was confused and I said "do you want to know why I am throwing Mom out?"
Of course D13 said yes and I told her that mom cheated on "us" I purposely used the word "us" here. That night my W filled her in on the details of the EA and one time PA with OM#1.

W issues a Domestic Violence Protective Order against me court date is set for Sept 3, 2009. We are supposed to be no contact but she is talking to me and over at the house everynight. Kids are with me at house and W is at neighbor's house. W tells kids that she is coming back after court date in a week. Kids happy, me happy, wife sorta happy, everything is going to get better from here....right, wrong!!

Enter Christian IC and or whacked out friend she is staying with.....she voluntarily drops the DVPO but decides to stay out of the house, I don't know this for sure but I think it was on the advice of the IC or whacked friend. Either way D13 gets pissed at W for not coming home. And it goes down hill from there.

Sept 13,2009 W's IC puts her in contact with lady that rents her a room dirt cheap, further aiding the destruction of the family. thank you christian IC who goes to our church
D13 getting more pissed as W starts telling lies and rewriting history.

October 1, 2009 W starts the distancing again and D13 is starting to not talk to W b/c she senses something is wrong with Mom. Mom saying that she can't be in same house as Dad at the same time. guilt for one night stands and eventually OM#2 affair

October 28, 2009 Joint counseling session with W and D13 to resolve issues. W promises D13 that OM#1 is biggest mistake in her life, would never happen again. All the while she is 2 to 3 weeks in a hot A with OM#2 and is still in contact with OM#1. The counseling session is not good for D13, she feels like Mom and C were bashing me, and she did not like that.

October 30,2009 I am supposed to go out GALing. Instead I get stupid, (puppy would disagree), and I go by Dept store where W is working PT, I pop the trunk of her car and there is her purse, grab it dig through and find the extra phone, full of sext messages to OM#2 and also OM#1 contacts are on there and there have been calls, I go into the Dept store. Confront W infront of God and everyone big scene. Second dumb A$$ moment of my life, (it actually wasn’t that bad). Go home instead of out for the evening, DUH Go upstairs to my room and flip on TV, I was actually okay. D13 comes in with 20 questions, why are you home? Whats wrong? Etc. She wasn’t expecting me until late, and I was home at 9:15. She presses and I say
“mom and I had another fight”
D about what?
M She is lying again.
D about what?
M nothing, don’t worry about it.
D WHAT IS IT, Dad you said you would never lie to me.
M …………….Mom is dating another man.
D WHAT, she just told me 2 days ago that OM#1 was the biggest mistake in her life.
3 hours later my D13 is in my bed with my S9 and I am on the floor b/c my D13 is afraid that mom is going to come to the house to hurt her. We slept with the bedroom door locked.

October 31, 2009 W was supposed to come over and get the kids to spend the day with them, now she wants to come over to talk to D13 but does not want me there. D13 is scared but wants to talk to Mom. I get close friend’s W to come over and be with D13 while mom is here and I leave, heavily medicated at this point. Story as follows related to me by good friend’s W (they know everything)

30 minute yelling match between D13 and mom. Mom tells D13 she can’t help herself, she’s addicted to “attention from Men”, there were other men after OM#1 and current OM#2 ie ONS (one night stands), thought that Dad hired OM#2 to seduce mom b/c he is everything she is looking for in a man (complete looser, unemployed, house in foreclousure, DUI, separated from his W for 3 months and he is an alcoholic.) W promises that she will stop seeing OM#2 if D13 wants her too. D13 says yes and W says okay, and she leaves, sorry there is more but I hit the high points.

November 19 2009 W drops son after spending one hour with him for dinner. Normally spends 3 hours on a Thursday night, I know she is off to see OM#2. I have been in contact w/ OM#2’s W and tell her I suspect my W is with him now. OM#2’s wife does not want to drive out to check unless she knows my W is there, he lives 5 miles away from me. I tell D13 I had to run to the store and will be right back. Go by his house and there is my W’s car in the driveway. I call his W and tell her and go home, no biggie. Get home and D13 already knows where I was. She asks, “Is mom with him?” I could not lie and I said “Yes”. D13 and I stay up until 2 am talking, I fill her in on more details of OM#1 and what went wrong in mom and Dad’s R. D13 is remembering things and also remembers the lies Mom told over the summer to cover the A with OM#1.

Meanwhile, OM#2’s W goes over to the house with camera in hand and catches her H and my W in the Bed together. Pics and everything, reads them the riot act, this is the end of A #2, (puppy would be proud).

November 20, 2009 My W goes to OM#2 house in AM to officially break it off. My W says " big mistake, I can tell you still love your W, Blah, blah, blah." My W goes to work and starts sending out suicide threats and leaving notes and crap that she has nothing to live for b/c I will be able to use pics against her in court, and she has nothing to live for. She spends the next week in the hospital under suicide watch. D13 knows about this too, SIL told S9 that she was in the hospital. That is how the kids found out about that.

This is about where I started posting to the Boards so my threads are not that long if you stick with my posts you will get the story.

The only other major event is the facebook incident as I refer to it on January 2, 2010. This was the last straw for my D13 and since then has not seen or spoken to my W.

There it is in all its glory, I feel I am responsible for my D13's initial knowledge but it was my W's continued behavior and lying that caused the rift between her and my D13.

I am still very optimistic about things, I know that I will be alright no matter what happens and the kids are okay. I have had them pretty much 24/7 since August 25th and the fact that there is no back up, no safety net, nothing gives me strength to do everything I am doing. I know God has given strength to handle this. I can't begin tell you the times I have ball up on the floor wanting to give up, but I manage to get up and pull it together and be the Man I never was before.

[MHL]

Headed out to work. Today is a good day and Mr. Marley will be on in the car!! A little sunshine would help but not needed.

Hope everyone has a great day!

[trustingfaith]

Sounds like you are doing really well, even with the events of the weekend!