how do i keep my hope alive?

[Onthemountaintop]

Wow - mom seems like a tough cookie, but she is your mom and I'm sure she loves you. Still, if she thinks that her words will eventually get to you, she'll keep at it.

Honoring and respecting parents is really important, but there is a limit. They shouldn't ever ask you to disrespect another or do other sins/"badness".

If you want an end to her berating him - I think if you tell her that you will not be a part of the conversation, and leave, and she continues then leave again after letting her know why. If you have to do it 7,000 times, it will eventually (partly?) sink in for this topic. Only she can change herself, but just as we've read to do with a spouse, setting boundaries and then acting on them (painfully, repeatedly) can get the message across. Mrs A made a point to consider - telling H that you stood up for him shows him that you are committed. It also tells him that if he does screw up, you have the strength to follow through a little more than you already have.

BTW, I checked my dictionary, and there was a woman's picture in it... (kidding~)

[talia]

Hi TTA,
Keep doing what you are doing - its WORKING!! FWIW I think everyone could benefit from a great therapist - its done wonders for me. I've deal alot with the M issues but alot more with my own issues - its been wonderful! Just MHO...


Big Hugs!!


T

[Onthemountaintop]

i think for sure that in the event that my H wanted to work things out, he would have a very hard road not only with me,

What did you mean by this, TTA?

[trytryagain]

OTM, i guess i mean that if my H knocked on my door today and said, hey, let's work this out, it would be very difficult for him to show me that i can trust him again. he has left not just once or twice, but THREE TIMES. am i the idiot for always letting him come back? i don't know. but how do you start a family with someone who has walked away from the commitment of our M more than one time ALREADY? it only gets harder with children and mortages and all the other stress that life brings!

last time we reconciled, it was all about talk. talk talk talk. he wrote me these amazing letters and bowled me over with promises to be a better man and do this and that and i believed it all. his actions backed up his words for about 2 months before he slowly started slipping back into his old behaviors...spending less and less time with me, more time at work, more time with his buddies, drinking more, going out more...so, i guess what i'm saying is that even IF we did decide to work on the M, i don't even know HOW i would go about learning to trust this man again.

but yes, my mom is a tough cookie. i'm having lunch with her today before i leave for my service trip. i know she just wants to be a part of my life and that her idea of marriage is very different from mine and that she's just lashing out right now because she can't believe someone would hurt her baby girl AGAIN by walking away from the vows that he made.

talia, i have an appointment with a new therapist today and i'm hoping we have a good connection, because she's also a certified yoga instructor, so hopefully she could help me build that practice into my therapy.

that is a good idea about letting my H know i would stand up for him. i mean, i did stand up for him once before when he left and my family was ready to kick him to the curb...but i don't feel like i would DEFEND him to my family right now. i would defend my decisions and my right to decide what is best for me, and my right to work on my M if i so choose, but i don't know what i could honestly say to my family right now in defense of my H. yes, he's seeking the help of an IC. yes he's apologized. but he still left. AGAIN.

[Onthemountaintop]

but THREE TIMES. am i the idiot for always letting him come back?

I think your name says it - not an idiot but someone with hope and love - that's awesome!

I totally get the fear side. Do you want to be 40 and have him leave again for good or for some woman who gets to him? I wouldn't have started my D stuff if my wife hadn't been saying that she wanted to leave when the kids grew up, telling me that someone was getting a house ready in another city, etc. I don't think she'll be saying that so often, but I can't guarantee she won't. My challenge, beyond love, is trust as well. I thought, 'I've stuck with this woman despite not feeling love, I've cared for her and her kids, I've tried to be happy with her and accept things, and here she is saying that SHE's leaving when I'm old and unlikely to remarry??'. Then I thought about what I did to cause her feeling this way. I'm trying as you are to change those. You didn't do that the first two times, if I understood right. I also didn't do enough to solve things.

So I figure, I am at least partly to blame. So I'll do what I can to make things actually work. If they do, I'm 80% sure I'll be in it for the long run. I can't say much for her, other than I expect at least 80% committment from her, too.

You're right. You don't have kids and a mortgage. You are almost 30, and many 40 year old women don't remarry (statistically speaking). So it is a bigger risk for you to stay because you have less to lose now.

As long as you are not giving in, what is the risk in trying it for another year or two? If it doesn't work, I'm guessing you'll know by then. ADHD = impulsivity and a mouth that is a bit loose. My W told me she loves that about me - that I don't choose (or can!) keep secrets from her. If I am not happy, I will say so. I think your H will too - just don't put the words in his mouth in a moment of anger(!)

You know that some of his issues are not going anywhere. He will keep going out. He will fear losing friendships and will forget you at times because what he enjoys isn't always the same. For me, it is (obviously) too much on the computer, but the feeling of being a good provider is a hard one to beat down - work can be overdone. You've mentioned the benefits, too. Maybe during your trip you could spend some time evaluating the faults as they are, and decide if you want (not can) accept them long-term. If you aren't happy and trying to change him, it might just cause more problems down the road.

Trust can be shown. He is separated. He goes out. Still, as far as you know, he isn't sleeping around. That is trust. He is being honest and telling you what he's thinking. That is trust.

Your mom may mean well (as does my dad), but if it is confusing you and hurting him, then something needs to change. Either he accepts being hurt, or you accept the confusion and issues of loyalty, or whatever. Your writings about the run ins are just that - run ins. Maybe an IC could start there...? Stand up for him like you would a very close friend, and you'll probably do well. While I believe Jesus was a prophet, maybe think, "what would Jesus do if someone was gossiping or attacking a person?"

[trytryagain]

but THREE TIMES. am i the idiot for always letting him come back?

I think your name says it - not an idiot but someone with hope and love - that's awesome!

well...as long as you're sure about that.

[trytryagain]

Maybe during your trip you could spend some time evaluating the faults as they are, and decide if you want (not can) accept them long-term. If you aren't happy and trying to change him, it might just cause more problems down the road.

this is a good thought. i don't want to just accept things about him that make me unhappy. because we both deserve more than that. definitely something to ponder while i'm hanging drywall next week.

Trust can be shown. He is separated. He goes out. Still, as far as you know, he isn't sleeping around. That is trust. He is being honest and telling you what he's thinking. That is trust.

again, very true. he does trust me to confide in me and i also feel like i can confide in him...but that doesn't mean i am not terrified that he would just feel the need to separate again later down the road when things get bumpy (if we decided to reconcile).

[trytryagain]

also i did have a great lunch with my mom today. did not mention my H ONCE. so that was really nice, and i think she was able to see how much more open to talking i am when she's not telling me what a waste of space she thinks my H is.

planning some fun things while i'm in new orleans and looking forward to being out of all of this for a while. it will be good to see family and old friends and be able to step outside of my life here for a little bit. only 4 days left here before i take off!! not sure if i'll see my H or not before i go, but i did set up an appointment today with a new IC for me, i'll see her on friday. feeling good today. miss my H terribly, but otherwise feeling good.

[Onthemountaintop]

I'm terrified too, but for the opposite reason. I wonder if later on as the kids grow up if I will re-evaluate and say goodbye. I don't ever want to put her through this, or me, again!! I figure, the important thing is now that I have advice, books, experience, etc., I need to make this choice a lifelong one as much as I can. It is still a risk, but isn't life full of risks?

Which risk are you more terrified of having:
- your H and you work things out and have an amazing few months or years, but then later he leaves,
- OR of going out and finding a new H but with him new problems that might lead to a different breakup, too (or not)

The first one has many advantages you know, the latter has a lot of uncertainty. To me with my excitement seeking brain, the latter is scary but intoxicating, even though I think logically it is the worst of the two.

[trytryagain]

OTM- i think you're right, life IS full of risks, i think i am more terrified of the first happening, that we'd reconcile and things would be great for a while, only to wind up back at this point later down the road (with a lot more at stake like family, house, etc.). for me right now, the idea of a new H or R with someone else doesn't really seem very exciting, and like you said, there's no guarantee i wouldn't have equally challenging problems in any future relationships.

my H texted me last night about how unhappy he was and how he wished he could take away the hurt he'd caused me. he also said he wished he was more "normal" and knew how he "should act" to be a better and more balanced man. i didn't know how to reply to that and i told him as much. again i know he was probably looking for some ENs to be met by me assuring him he was not a bad person, but i didn't do that. just said that normal was different for everyone and that only what we do moving forward counts.

he sees his IC today...i'm bothered that i am so sad that he's in such a bad emotional/mental place. obviously i love and care for him deeply and don't want to see him hurting but at the same time, this is a consequence of a decision HE made and i'm upset with myself that i'm not more angry. shouldn't i be furious? shouldn't i not give a rat's as$ how he's feeling right now? HE WANTED TO LEAVE. now he's feeling the repercussions and i'm feeling SAD for him?? at what point am i being overly compassionate and not putting my own ENs first? i feel like i am in a way better place than he is - mentally, emotionally, physically, even spiritually...but even still - why am i so worried that he's having such a hard time??