flowmom | shifting from devastated to rebuilding

[flowmom]

What is your H love language? What is yours?

His is definitely physical affection. My primary one is quality time, but physical affection is a secondary one.

I'm also tempted to just hug him.

[flowmom]

Flowmom, that friend is a keeper!! And she said such good things!

She's the best ever.

he is skeptical of your changes like he said, but I think also intrigued. It sounds like he wants to see if you are being civil just to try to get him back, or will you stay civil even if he is dating, meaning are you playing a game or is your nice behavior permanent...is it for real? And what else could be causing you to be so patient and kind?? Why is Flowmom handling this so well?

Yeah. It is obviously an issue for him that I'm changing, but I'm just wondering if for him it's about figuring out how much I'll punish him in the D (rather than him wondering if I've made permanent changes therefore some hope for a renewed M).

[flowmom]

H is gone for the day and I didn't "talk" with him. Thanks for talking me down from the ledge friends .

Actually something that helped me was that I reached a DB "goal" tonight. I was enthusiastically telling H about the hockey game and he smiled (not looking at me though) because it was so absurd that I was showing any enthusiasm for sports. H smiling was one of my "goals". That encouraged me to focus on the babysteps and not the big picture.

So what did I do to pave the way for H to smile? I was doing a 180 and I was expressing myself more freely (I had had one beer a few hours ago...what can I say I'm a cheap drunk). It was a 180 from the same old/same old that we've been stuck in lately...both of us super polite but somewhat wary.

The evening was topped off by D3 projectile vomiting over every item of her bedding, my clothing, her clothing, and her hair. The joys of parenthood.

[flowmom]

An important (to me) thing to add is that my friend said that H specifically referred to it as a "trial separation". She said "how long is it going to be a trial separation? you can only be in a trial separation for so long" and "when will flowmom know that the trial separation is over?". No responses from H, just as with most of her questions of him.

[Cadet]

I was enthusiastically telling H about the hockey game and he smiled (not looking at me though) because it was so absurd that I was showing any enthusiasm for sports

Am I hearing that talking about sports is a 180 also?

[newmama]

Flowmom, great job not talking to him! It is useless for you or your friend to ask H how long it will take for him to decide, when he will know, etc. Pressure for answers won't help your H know what he wants. However, I think it's promising that he said "trial" separation...

Congrats on getting a smile! You might find that now the smiles will come more often, like the ice was broken! So maybe you should pick up "drinking" as a 180? (lol-I am NOT serious!!)

Just out of curiosity, are there any 180s with your appearance that you might try? You know, since men are visual creatures? For ex, I have tried to go back to contac lenses, and wearing hair down.

[flowmom]

So this morning I made myself sick looking for H's profile on an online dating site. Stupid. I started having a major adrenaline rush. I have to figure out how to deal with urges to do stuff like this.

I am feeling really discouraged this morning. I think the entire convo with my friend boiled down to H trying to ferret out info about my state of mind and how it will affect divorce proceedings.

H's dilemma:
I should tell Flowmom that I am "dating" because I promised her that I was going to be transparent about my status. But if I tell her she might get enraged and punish me in custody/financial negotations.

I think that is 100% of what the convo was about

It sickens me that he can't make eye contact with me and is trying to communicate via my poor friend who desperately wishes us to reconcile.

It sickens me that I'm seen as an adversary, when all I want to do is love him and create a new life as a whole family. It sickens me that he's inviting melodrama into our children's lives.

I have to figure out what to do about the "dating while in a trial separation" issue. Is it cake-eating? He gets to look like the guy who is dealing with his stuff and figuring things out. And he's keeping the door open for himself. While pursuing dating/sex. This is the third time that dating has been brought up by him - twice to my friend and once to me. Maybe he needs to hear this from me:

In a trial separation, the door is wide open for reconciliation. But "dating" is not OK with me during a trial separation. You've made your intention to "date" clear (both to me and via Friend), so as far as I'm concerned we're no longer in a trial separation and I'm assuming that you don't want to be married to me.

Because he's too much of a f---- coward to tell me like it is. Isn't this an appropriate boundary? I'm not going to email this to him today or tomorrow. But I feel uneasy about the fact that at this point it looks like I'm condoning his dating during a trial separation. Then I don't have a leg to stand on later if he gets into a full-blown R with an OW. "Be the better option" will be my only option because I've already condoned him having an A.

[flowmom]

Am I hearing that talking about sports is a 180 also?

Definitely.

However, I think it's promising that he said "trial" separation...

No, I think that's just about looking like a "good guy" to others. I don't think it has much to do with his intentions .

Congrats on getting a smile! You might find that now the smiles will come more often, like the ice was broken!

He can't even make eye contact with me .

Just out of curiosity, are there any 180s with your appearance that you might try?

Well, I'm 5'5" and I've gone from 153 lbs to 133 lbs in 2 months. He's got to be noticing that and that would be important to him. I'm wearing normal clothing for me, but more on the body conscious side. I'm wearing makeup and styling my hair every day (180). The only thing I could do more in that area is get more fit and toned and that's definitely on the list.

[CityGirl]

I am not really sure that is a boundary.

I would not use the word "assume" with your H.

As difficult as it is, it's best to leave friends and family out of it.

You and your H agreed to transparency (RE: dating) when the trial separation started, correct? Has he told you about the online dating profile? If not then I would say he has not held up his end of the deal w/transparency and you have to make a decision on how you will handle that.

This is just my opinion but this is in large part while "controlled separations" or "trial separations" simply don't work. The WAS views it as another step towards a divorce while the LBS feels it could be a stepping stone towards a reconciliation.

Other than providing financial support and doing fatherly duties your H has been living the single life. Would you say that is a fair assessment?

I wouldn't call it cake eating as you H doesn't seem to be treating you like a W when it suits him. He is very much (IMO) in full WAS spouse and is waiting for you to get on board.

Have you spoken with an attny yet?

[flowmom]

I am not really sure that is a boundary.

Well it would become a boundary because I would be unilaterally changing the status from "trial separation" to "separation" (not legal).

I would not use the word "assume" with your H.

Why not? I'm in an information vacuum and he has to know that I'm going to make assumptions in the absence of info, and those assumptions will have implications.

As difficult as it is, it's best to leave friends and family out of it.

I haven't involved anyone. But H has by talking to my friend.

You and your H agreed to transparency (RE: dating) when the trial separation started, correct?

Yes. It was indirect but clear.

Has he told you about the online dating profile? If not then I would say he has not held up his end of the deal w/transparency and you have to make a decision on how you will handle that.

I don't know if there's a profile. But I think he is indirectly communication loud and clear that he is going to date (=already dating I assume).

This is just my opinion but this is in large part while "controlled separations" or "trial separations" simply don't work. The WAS views it as another step towards a divorce while the LBS feels it could be a stepping stone towards a reconciliation.

Unfortunately, that is probably true. I've been clinging to the "trial" part, but that's more about H's guilt- and image-management.

Other than providing financial support and doing fatherly duties your H has been living the single life. Would you say that is a fair assessment?

Yes.

I wouldn't call it cake eating as you H doesn't seem to be treating you like a W when it suits him. He is very much (IMO) in full WAS spouse and is waiting for you to get on board.

You're right, cake-eating isn't the right term. And I am reluctantly concluding that the bolded part above is true.

Have you spoken with an attny yet?

No. I want to ask for advice from my IC in a week when he gets back. He does divorce work and I want his input on how to proceed. I am terrified by picking a L, picking the process (mediation with and without Ls, DIY, collaborative D, adversarial D...). Huge variation in costs, and huge potential implications for how it affects coparenting R, etc.