Allen, Again thanks for all your advice. I will talk to my friend again about talking with my H. However, when I asked her a few days ago, she didn't seem interasted anymore in helping him or even talking to him. She is angry at the way he is treating me.
Next time I have convo with my H, I will mention a FT approach and see what he says. Other then that is there anything else I should say to him when he says all those things to me? Do I just validate and not get emotional and not try to argue any of his points?
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Oh one thing I forgot to mention. He had taken the kids shopping on Tuesday to get me bday presents. He asked on Sat if I liked the presents the kids got me. When I told him that I didn't get anything. He was very sorry, and said he felt really bad, I could tell it made him feel bad. I just said that it was no big deal.
Also, he found out that I had bought my own bday cake and arranged my own party with my family. That to made him feel bad. I just ignored him and again said it was no big deal.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
So mb, the kids bought you presents but didn't give them to you?
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
Yes, they forgot too. We weren't home long enough for them to think about it on my bday, so they just forgot.
Another thing I remembered that my H always says to me:
I have felt so unloved the last 4 years - I agree with him on this one, he has always been the emotional one in our R. Always doing and saying nice things for me. Me not so much I am afraid. I think I always expected him to do this, and I rarely initiated any sort of romance. In fact there was few times he had done something nice for me, and I came back with a snide joke, that hurt his feelings. An example: we were going to Jamaica for a friend’s wedding and he had asked me if I wanted to renew our vows (I thought he was joking) I said, "Why would I want to make that mistake again". I immediately realized that he wasn't joking and apologized a ton, and told him I didn't really mean it. That is just one example of many. That is why doing the NC is so hard for me.
I think he has always considered me kind of cold in the M. So a 180 for me would be to be really nice and sweet to him. But I know this doesn’t work with an A going on. However, I believe that is what he is getting from the OW. She is probably asking him how his day went, and stuff like that. Does any of this change my approach?
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
The thing is, he's just sharing his mood with you.
You can't take what he's saying as an argument or an invitation to FIX things... forgive me for saying this ladies, but right now he's acting like a woman, in the respect that he WANTS to share his FEELINGS with you, but he JUST wants you to LISTEN, and offer sympathy.
I am NOT recommending you DO this, you should NOT be contacting him at all.
However. If you ARE cornered, try to prompt him positively.
If he says he wants a divorce and you HAVE to say something...
"Don't you love us anymore? You want to divorce your family? Is there NOTHING about us you like anymore?
Asking QUESTIONS that force him to think POSITIVELY is going to be a LOT HEALTHIER an experience for him than arguing and accepting his bait to fight... and he WILL bait you.
I don't recommend you speak with him because I honestly don't think you are in the shape to manage a convo that ends good right now. I think you are BOTH prone to your impulses right now and its NOT a good thing for you two to be talking right now. ONE of you will say something and the OTHER will SNAP eventually and all the hard work of NOT fighting will go out the window.
If YOU think you can keep COMPLETE CONTROL of yourself at ALL times I would say go for it... but I have no confidence that's possible right now... You can't even keep from picking up the phone when he calls!
Admittedly, this is a LOT easier for men to do than women...
Your FREIND needs to STOP thinking about helping HIM... she's helping YOU.. as LONG as YOU want your MARRIAGE... she's helping YOU... not HIM. Not to mention she's keeping children from becoming children of divorce... its NOT a healthy way for kids to grow up.
Your friend needs to look at EVERYONE and the BIG PICTURE here...
Your friend is likley letting her impulses control HER too... SOMEONE OVER THERE needs to CONTROL themselves enough to do some REPAIR work.. if YOU can't control yourself, your friend can't control herself, AND your husband can't control HIMSELF... how do you expect things to get better?
I realise your friend wants to help, I realise they hate seeing him hurt you and his children, but SHUTTING HIM OUT sends him to the OTHER WOMAN to talk... If she CARES about YOU, and YOU want him back, being a friend to YOU, means talking to HIM. But talkign to him in a way to prompt him to attend a family therapist session...
----------------
NOW... family therapy is a VERY delicate business... you MUST KNOW BEFORE your husband is exposed to a FT what they are going to DO and what they are going to SAY?
Did YOU WATCH the guerilla divorce busting video I put up for you? I suspect you haven't? WATCH THAT... PLEASE... get your FRIEND to watch it... PLEASE get your friend to watch it... ALL of it.
You need a therapist that will THINK and DO what MWD does in that video OK?
You CAN'T TRUST a CLINIC to FIX him BLINDLY...
Most people have a mechanic they befriend for their car. Most people don't trust just ANYONE to tinker with their car. I will use that as an example... would you trust just ANYONE with your marriage simply becuase they have a degree?
Of COURSE you wouldnt'.. so, since you can't TRUST, you must EVALUATE yourself directly.. go to a FT session and get a sense of who this person IS.
Make SURE they are going to HELP and NOT say something NEGATIVE that will drive your H AWAY.
You CANNOT in ANY way trust someone you haven't MET yourself OK? I can't stress that enough.
YOU need to start seeing a FT yourself... you don't need to tell your H about it, he won't receive that well right now. Once you find a REALLY GOOD ONE.. ask the FT to put a HAND WRITTEN INVITE to your H on their business card, and LEAVE the card for your H to pick up... or whatever. Don't give it to him in person, its too much PRESSURE.. just leave it for him, let him pick it up voluntarilly.
But YOU need to start sessions with FT until you find a good one you like and your H will like. It WILL help you to go anyhow... AND its also research for you... its good stuff...
McQuade and maybe Hollonbeck from the list you gave me are the ONLY two I would even BOTHER meeting there... the rest are fixated on analysis.. you don't WANT an ANALYST, you want a THERAPIST...
Therapists TREAT problems Analysts just EXAMINE AND DIAGNOSE
Look at the research interests they have... that's KEY... you can't MEET every FT out there, so you need to learn to evaluate their interests ahead of time to weed out the QUACKS.. you dont' have TIME to interview them all for an hour.... I got rid of a LOT in the list you sent, I picked TWO that I had some confidence in... and even THEM i would want to meet before I sent my Husband to talk to them.
They MUST do the following :
1. Put marriage FIRST 2. DENOUNCE emotional infideltiy AND physical infidelity 3. TREAT Infidelity as an ADDICTION 4. Understand that people in marital crisis who want to LEAVE : a) Are NOT in an emotional state where they should be making ANY drastic changes in their life b) Need to be prompted to a healthier state safely
These THREE are KEY. If the THerapist can't commit to these, DROP THEM.
Michele Davis has some good amterial here on evaluating therapists... and AGAIN that VIDEO I put UP is GREAT .. it talks extensively about finding a GOOD FAMILY therapist... PLEASE watch the VIDEO.
Well, mb, it depends onthe strategy you want to use. So showing caring behavior during NC sends mixed signals...
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
I put the qualifications of three counsellors below.. which one do you think would be the BEST choice for your situation, which would be the worst? Why?
You need to practice evaluating FT's and getting used to what all this stuff can or can't do for you :
--------------------------------------------- Person A - Licensed Clinical Social Worker - certified in addiction counseling- - member of National Association of Social Workers - member of National Association of Alcohol and Drug Addiction Counselors - experienced in working with children, adults, and seniors individually or together as a couple or family on a variety of issues including grief/loss, addiction/codependency, marital problems/divorce, anxiety/depression, post-traumatic stress disorder ---------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------- Person B - founder and C.E.O. of Comprehensive Psychological Services. - Ph.D. at the University of Tennessee in 1977 - is a psychologist - is experienced in providing counseling services - provides psychological evaluations including Custody Evaluations, Forensic Evaluations, Fitness for Duty Evaluations, Substance Abuse Evaluations, ADHD and Learning Disability Evaluations. ---------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------- Person C - has a doctorate degree in clinical psychology - works with families, individuals, and couples in therapy - problem solving and practical solutions to manage mental health issues - integrating biofeedback, cognitive therapy, and other modalities into the therapy sessions - works with other physicians and therapists to make certain all of our clients have appropriate evaluations and diagnoses - provides expert psychological and neuropsychological evaluations - has experience working with persons who have learning disabilities, attention disorders, and other problems that effect school performance - works with the family and the educational environment to find the solutions that ensure academic success - worked extensively with persons who have substance abuse issues, mood disorders, psychosis, and anxiety problems ---------------------------------------------
Choose A, B, or C... which woudl be the best choice for you?
Well, mb, it depends onthe strategy you want to use. So showing caring behavior during NC sends mixed signals...
That's the other thing, in addition to risking a fight, it compromises your boundaries.
If you want to press him to end his affair, you have to show him you won't tolerate it... being NICE doens't send a message to him that you are being HURT and want him to STOP, it tells him you are ok with him with another woman and to keep it up...
All of the info above you can get to him through third parties.. it doesn't HAVE to come from you, and I wouldn't even recommend it...
I agree, I am not strong enough right now to have a convo with H. And I don't plan on having one any time soon, however if I do get cornered, I wanted to know what to say. We did have a brief encounter yesterday because he watched the kids while I worked. However, other than the bday present convo, there was nothing else. I told him I was really busy and had a lot of homework, so he left without another word. He didn't even bring up his text about filing tomorrow.
I tried to watch the video on Friday. But I think I went to the wrong one. I will watch it right now. Thanks for the link.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
