Post any questions you might have to me here....

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi again, Treese,

I told H I needed money and he pretty much said he can't get any....I never responded to him....I was so mad....he has no worries, no responsibilities, NOTHING!! Just having fun with OW...

Bullcrap on him saying he can't get any money..OW is cleaning his pockets out and that is ALL she is after. I can guarantee you he's feeling his share of guilt; you just don't see it because he's NOT showing that side to you..yet. I also guarantee you OW is getting the rough side of his tongue from time to time. But, since SHE'S crazy, too..she probably doesn't mind....yet.

I was trying to find a thread I'd written on "Neurotics attract Neurotics" that was an explanation for why MLC'ers hook up with OW/OMs...can't find it yet, but hoping I will.

I had backed up all the threads I'd written on a disk at home;(had no idea why I did it then, but I think I do now) I will find it when I get there; and whatever's missing, I will repost. I had not expected as many things that were preserved, and Smurf had done a great job of ressurecting the old threads..but I also understand that some things were probably lost in the process because of server space; and it WAS a long time ago.

I honestly think OW is controlling his money; and he's allowing her to, but not telling you that...you do know if/when the divorce goes to process, he will have to cough up money as from what I see you do have at least one child at home.

Well, you know OW is after the almighty dollar..and he thinks she luvs him..and yes, I did say "LUV" True LUV is nothing but an illusion, a band aid, a symptom, not a solution.

Rest assured this "luv" nest business can't last for long, before it goes to pieces eventually. At least I hope so, there is hope as long as you love him; when you stop loving him; all is lost, and NO, you could NOT be blamed. MLC devours marriages, relationships; and it is a hard thing to take when a MLC affair starts up, and is discovered.

He says he needs to start spending time with his other son also...sure...all of a sudden after 10 years he wants to be involved...I think he is avoiding us and not spending time with our kids because he went 10 years without spending time with his other son...it's almost like he's punishing us for that..does that sound weird?

Kind of "normal" for MLC. After years of not wanting to spend time with our son, all of a sudden my husband decides it's time to forge a relationship with him...completely ignoring ME in the process...not the same thing, but similar..
I felt like you do for awhile; like I was being punished for something I did..but that wasn't true; it's the "opposite" business going on, as well as guilt coming into play for not doing right when the MLC'er was in his/her right mind.

It's really not so much that he's avoiding the current family; it's just that his mind is all over the map at this point in time...and he feels extreme guilt; trying to fix a mistake that he can NEVER fix..and their minds get to be on ONE track; instead of two. He also seems to be living in a time LONG before he met you...I'm not sure how old this other son is.

Don't give that one any head time, either...it's YOU and your growth you need to worry about....your WAS is firmly entrenched within the tunnel..acting out his various fantasies, trying to bring back a time that does not exist anymore.

And something you cannot do anything about until the fog begins to clear...if it ever does.

Continue to work on yourself, don't worry about him...don't file for a divorce if you don't want one, make sure you don't allow him to manipulate you into something you don't choose to do.
Sometimes, when they are forced to do something they want the LBS to do; it will sometimes begin to wake them up..sometimes not..depends upon them.

But, like I said before, you do not want him to manipulate you into filing a divorce so he can blame you for it.

he wants me to sit down at our dining room table and work it out between us because "we are not movie stars who have alot of money to throw away on divorce"...

Excuse me, but uh, there are CHILDREN still at home, and you are entitled to child support, and why should you make things easier on him? And who's throwing away what? Money?
Heck, he's throwing away the BEST thing that ever happened to him, and he's worried about "throwing away money on divorce?"
Is this so he can have more money to spend on OW? Shoot, I wouldn't want him to have ANY money to spend on OW. I KNOW you don't want that either.
Yet, he doesn't realize that you could clean him totally out in a divorce suit, and make sure he doesn't have a pot to urinate in, by the time you get done with him if he pushes this through on his own.

Or maybe, in his nutty mind, he does, or he wouldn't be attempting to get you to do it 'his way.' He's up to something, I can tell you that.

He's definitely trying to take the "easy" way out to get out of as much responsibility as he can...and you realize what he's trying to do, and refusing to budge.

Make sure you're protected financially, Treese..and that he has as little access to funds as possible, especially since OW is involved. I'm fairly sure you're already doing that..but the thought crossed my mind.

You have a family to support...and he's nutty as a fruitcake.

Sometimes, in these types of tug of wars, they are made to do some thinking..and they NEED to think about what they are doing to their families.

These are consequences for his actions; and you're not wrong for standing your ground...you're standing for more than money; you're standing for your family, and ANGRY that he's abandoned it for that FLOOZY.

Sometimes that is a very lonely journey, but worth it. You're not alone, though, there are others going through this; and if you believe in God; He is also there, watching all that goes on.

I firmly believe the cheating/unrepentant MLC'er gets his/her own eventually. No sin goes unpunished; as the sinner reaps hard for a time/season. You may not see this "reaping" but you don't have to.

As God blesses those who make a stand, he punishes those who hurt others.

Vent all you want; it's fine; I do understand your pain, and know you're doing all you can do to stand.

And we're right there with you.

Take care of yourself, Treese.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hello Mach1,

I see a lot of newer posters that seem to define success at DBing by their left ring finger....

The success of a marriage has NOTHING to do with what's on their left finger; I learned long ago that ring is a "symbol" not a feeling. It doesn't matter if the ring is worn or not; if the committment nor feelings are there, it does NOT matter about the ring. My husband lost his wedding band TWICE while in the tunnel; the first time was when he was tangled up with OW..and I knew he'd removed his ring..no telling where he left it. I replaced it,(I didn't get it at first, still thinking the ring meant something) then he lost the SECOND one and the Lord instructed me NOT to replace it until he ASKED for another one.

He did, but it wasn't for well over a year, and I kept getting strange looks from him; until finally he said something about his finger feeling "naked" without it...so I replaced it a final time..he's never lost it again.

The ring meant nothing to him for a long period of time; not until he began to "feel married" again. That was when he asked for another ring.

At another time, before he lost his a second time, I took mine off until he actually noticed it wasn't there, and accused me of "wanting to be single", LOL!! That was funny as all get out; and I asked the Lord what to do before I answered the accusation..and was told it was up to me. I denied the accustion, but I put my ring back on because it was upsetting him so much; and haven't removed it since. It still means nothing to me except as a "symbol" that I'm taken.
Yet, it also means NOTHING to some of these nuts who pay NO attention to the fact I'm married as signified by the ring..and I make it clear when hit on that I am VERY much married.

It was during both of these instances of a lost ring(him), and a ring removed(me), that I was taught that it really didn't matter whether the ring was worn or not.

Those are my thoughts and what I learned. My husband and I love each other and are committed, regardless of what kind of troubles we may have, that is all that matters in the greater scheme of things; the ring be danged.

Maybe you could take some time to post what your views are about YOU if your marriage would not have been rebuilt.

Would you still have lived, and been a better person regardless ?

You are asking about me; and I will give you a little history into what led me here in the first place:

I am now a person of a strength, a firm believer in the Lord, who believes that all things happen for a reason. I was given a choice long ago, when the MLC affair first came to light almost three months after I'd been bombed with his foray into internet pornography.
That led, in a short period of time, to a discovery of his MLC affair.

I was badly hurt, nearly committed suicide, but with the help of the Lord, came through that valley, and started learning what this was about, but got angry, and had decided to leave, because I felt, at the time, I couldn't take anymore pain.
My husband was in OW Withdrawal by that time, she was still pestering him, he was telling one lie right after another and on top of that I was being treated like dirt and worse. AND I HADN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG!!

Someone was sent immediately to interfere with that decision, in fact, the SAME day I was committing to that course of action. The lady that was sent, spoke to me about not making such a hasty choice; as the door had opened to exit the marriage because of the adultery that HAD occurred; he had fallen not once but three times and the signs fell all three times.
I was all over the map; on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and it took me awhile to get myself together long enough to decide what I wanted to do.

There ARE people in this world, gifted with foresight, who can actually see the past, present and future, and ALL gifts come from the Lord.
I was dealing with one of those people at that time. She was speaking to me of events in my life and my husband's life that only I knew, and my husband knew; yet, she barely knew me. I had told NO ONE what was happening to me at that time; keeping it to myself because of shame, guilt, and misery. I didn't think anyone would understand what I was going through..and though I had helped many over time, I was unable to ask anyone to help me. I blamed myself, too, and that compounded things.

The Lord had dealt with her to come to me, and she hadn't wanted to get involved, at first.
By the time she did, it was almost too late; I was WAY out in left field myself; never mind where my husband was at.

She sketched what was going on, first; and told me that he was going through a MLC, went all the way back to his childhood; basically where it all started, so to speak, and told me some things about mine that only I knew about. She couldn't know what she was saying unless the Lord HAD shown her.

And she knew my husband had committed adultery, which was the root of my deciding to leave.

I was told that if I chose to stay with the marriage, that things would come back together into a better marriage than I'd had before, though the path would be a hard one. I was also reminded that I'd promised for better or worse..but yet was told, the door was open because of the adultery; the choice was mine.

They say be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it.
I asked what would happen in either circumstance; whether I chose my marriage or chose to let it go.
I wanted to know, thinking it would help me to choose..in a way it helped, and in a way it didn't.
I still loved my husband, and there was hope as long as I did.

I got an answer in the form of two paths:

To one way, lay a path of total destruction concerning my husband; the other led to a better marriage, although the path would be long and hard.

Either way I would choose, I would be taken care of...but the path of total destruction; showed me the suicide of my husband; he would reach his "awakening" 5 years after going on with the OW; the anguish would have been TOO much for him to bear and he would have seen NO other way out.
He would also have felt that it would have been the point of NO return.
For me, I would have gone on to a place where, though I would have always had feelings for him, I would have no longer loved him.
Yet, when that phone call would have come through I would have taken care of him; and taken responsibility for burying him; as I would NOT have divorced him; but gone on with my life. At any rate I would not have known where to find him..if he'd walked away, he would NOT have notified me as to his whereabouts; and I would not have known until he had died.
And I would have been consumed with guilt and shame; for how long is not known. I didn't take that path, so I will never know.

The other path shown was a LONG hard road, filled with pain, some sorrow, much learning, but in the end I would gain a better man than I had before the tunnel. I was also shown..and it did come to pass, there would be times of second guessing myself, mistakes made and learned from. Yet, things WOULD be better. And it came to pass, as was shown to me.

I chose the path I'm on now, which was attempting to bring my marriage back together. In time that led me here to this board.

The lady I spoke of stayed with me as a guide/mentor for around 3 years while I was gaining in strength, learning the gifts I was being given, helping to teach me how to use them.
I still keep in touch with her, occasionally, but her steady help is no longer needed; she was only with me for a season, then she left me on my own...and I have been on my own for a long time. I learned a great deal from her during that time, and I am in her debt, though she does not see it that way.
The Lord blessed her for helping me, and that is all she sees.

I believe that if my husband had been let go to go to the other woman; in the shape I was in at the beginning; I might not have learned what I did...until much later on. I was still at a place where I was still trying to figure out why it was ME who had to change instead of him. I think, eventually, I would have seen the wisdom to change..but I would NOT have been here, nor would I have held the current occupation I hold now.

That alternate path would have been MORE painful than what I chose, but that is NOT why I chose my current path. Love had a great deal to do with it, and had I not loved him still, it wouldn't have mattered to me what happened to him.....at least until it had to.

That's the history, and it actually happened that way.

Now, all of you kind people here can think I'm all kinds of crazy if you like..but I did see both ends and made a choice because, somewhere in my heart of hearts, I loved him, and I really wanted to stay married if that was possible..and so the door closed forever for me to walk out.


As to what I think I would have done even if this had NOT been shown to me, and someone had NOT been sent to interfere with my decision to walk away, and I'm speculating here:

I believe I would have gone on, probably never remarried; as my husband is and always will be "THE ONE" love of my life.

Eventually, I think I would have learned the lessons; gaining a different perspective of life as it is post-dealing with a MLC'er.

My choices most likely would have been WAY different..I was already being guided toward the lessons, and would have stumbled into them, after getting past my initial anger, I think.

I sincerely believe it would have taken me MUCH longer to reach the place I'm in now, but I think I would have finally seen somewhere down the line what I was meant to see/learn...but, again, it would have taken MORE time, because of the choices I would have made.

It is also possible that if I'd changed my mind and remarried BEFORE I learned all of life's lessons, I would have been set to go through this AGAIN, with added time, been much older, and the situation may have been MUCH worse than what I faced this time around.

What you don't learn the first time, you WILL recycle back through with time added, and a worse situation; I've seen this happen with people before, and I'd done the SAME thing in the past LONG before his MLC ever came about.

Regardless of what happened, I would most likely have arrived at the SAME place I'm at now, emotionally, only WITHOUT my marriage and the alternate path would have taken MUCH longer than the other.

I'm basing that on the kind of person I'd always been; open minded, and always willing to learn, though I have always had many questions in that process of learning.

I would hope the Lord would have been as strong with me as He is now, if I'd gone the other direction..each time I have gone through something in my life, He has wrought a healing in me bringing me past the pain and into peace. But like all things, time would, again, have been a factor.

I have faced the possibility of losing my marriage during this time, and was filled with a knowing that if he left, I would lose nothing, and could accept that. He didn't leave, and that was a bonus.

I KNOW that regardless of what happens, I have gained MORE than I ever lost during this time.
And though, I would have suffered greatly, I would have STILL seen the good that would have come out of all of it.

I do NOT know if this might help answer what you're asking; I don't think there was any real insight here, except into me as a person.
I have NEVER been asked this before, and it was good to have me thinking backwards, remembering, and finally, speculating on what might have been.

On an added note:
No one can really know for sure what they would do or not do if they'd gone another direction.

We can only do the best we can with the hand we've been dealt, learning to live with the consequences of our choices.
The journey we walk is up and down, round and round; sometimes it's fairly easy, sometimes it's really hard...and sometimes, we need help getting over the obstacles we face.
But we learn, nonetheless.

Believe it or not, I have NEVER wondered what it would have been like if I'd taken another path. I have been frustrated and angry, and sometimes had second guessed myself about the decision I made, especially when things weren't going well.
I'm human, after all, just like anyone else, and I hate any kind of suffering..but I endure it anyway, knowing it leads me to a better place in my growth. In the end, I'm always glad I stick with these opportunities for growth, as they continue to mold and shape me into a better person than I was before they occurred.

Only God knows for sure what would have occurred in my life; I was speculating on what the outcome would have been if I'd taken that alternate path I was shown.

I'm grateful I came this direction; and have NO regrets over having not gone the other way..and it was NOT because of the terrible things I saw in that alternate path so long ago.

It was because I loved my husband, and wanted to try my best to do everything I could to bring this back together.
And the Lord knew that, as He knows my heart and what I need.

Just as He knows me better than anyone could ever hope to.

I just know that I wouldn't trade what I went through for all the freedom in the world...it was an opportunity I just could not miss, and hope that what I faced, and the insight the Lord gives me is a help and inspiration to others on this path.

You will meet many people in this life who are ahead of you in their stage of growth, some are behind you..but each person touches your life, regardless.

And you touch theirs.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hello Diamond Girl,

I was wondering about the guilt that the MLC feels. Do they ever come to terms with it in the later stages?

First all, BrandNewDay is correct in all she's telling you.
And she's right, I do not have a crystal ball.

There are some things I can see, and I have been given insight to help people with their situations. But even I cannot predict what a MLC'er will do or not do in a given situation.

MLC is entirely TOO unpredictable.

In theory, the MLC'er is SUPPOSED to be able to come to terms with their guilt as they face their issues in later stages. But, again, that is up to the MLC'er in question, and it varies. Some move through more quickly than others..it also depends on how much pain they have faced in their life as a whole..and this means childhood on through adulthood.

You would be surprised at the fears that come about within yourself based on things they said pre-MLC, and what you see them act out during that time....my husband said years ago that if anything ever happened to me and him, he would just walk away and never come back...and he almost did just that. I actually remembered that as he spoke later of thinking about just walking away three different times, but the third time he had to look ahead and see what life would be like without me, and he couldn't face that, so he wanted to be married if I would still have him.
Some things were NEVER spoken of, and I have accepted that, though, when the much lied about OW was brought up later, I wasn't the one who raised the issue, HE did.
Remember this was in the MUCH later stages after he was coming back together, and the guilt was there..but he seemed for a last time to want to convince me that I didn't hear/see what I KNOW I heard/saw.
I'd started to argue, then realized I was falling into a trap, and snapped my mouth shut and just looked at him after telling him to tell the truth or shut up and take it to his grave, it didn't matter to me; as it was forgiven long ago.

That would have been a prime time to get it all out, but he didn't. And he hasn't to this day.
I'm not that worried about that, anyway...I've never had to sleep with guilt as a bed fellow. I like my conscience clear.

Someone told me later on, that he was still suffering from guilt compounded by the fear that even after all this time, that I would "get him back". I don't even have that on the brain.
I healed from the MLC affair and the events of his MLC long ago, forgiving him in the process totally and completely.
There are no triggers, no flashbacks, nothing for me.
It was quite awhile before I reached that point in my life.

I HAD to back away from his drama, learning to detach and distance myself from what was going on. I couldn't keep getting sucked in..it was killing me, emotionally.

I HAD to concentrate on my own journey; and the funny was when I let completely go, he came forward, the pressure was off, and eventually, he was walking on my heels; as I'd almost forgotten about him being there.

Anyhow;

It looks to me like your husband's dad's infidelities damaged your husband more severely than you know; and they left many unhealed wounds within your husband.

It is unknown what your husband will do at this time; the guilt within him is raging, but there is nothing you can do to help him; except to listen when he spews, taking nothing personal.
Detach and distance from his drama, working on yourself, learning what YOU have to learn about yourself, and leave him be for now. When/if he needs you, he will come to you.

And not until.

It's something you don't need on your plate right now..he is going his own way for now..and you're not a part of that at the moment.

They all work through on their own, and at their own speed.

And I seriously doubt your husband remembers what he said so long ago...my husband did NOT remember; I tested that theory on him at one point as I remembered that when I thought he was going to walk out on me..and got a look that would have stabbed me if it'd been a knife..then he flat denied saying it.

The point is, they're doing good if they remember what they ate yesterday, much less something they said years ago.

Their brain waves are working on a different pattern during MLC; and they are living in a time before you ever came into the picture..that is why you get looks sometimes that indicate they don't know you or sometimes have trouble with your name, and why you're there.
They just know you are, and they don't want you "in their way" and view you as the "enemy"..and the more you argue, the harder they run away, and further into the tunnel they run.

What I'm trying to tell you is this man is NOT the man you married..he is a stranger that has been abducted by the MLC alien ship..when he will come back, I do not know..on top of that, if he DOES come back, he will not be exactly the man you knew; there WILL be changes within him.
The changes you make will be your own, as his will be his own. Do not interfere with his journey, and don't worry about him; he is taken care of; be more concerned with YOU.

Let go, let God do His work within your husband...learn to detach and distance, working on yourself, learning what you have to learn, pray and pray some more.

It's a long haul, and your strength is needed for YOU right now.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi DestinyUnknown,

What do you think the major difference is between an MLCer and a WAS?

An MLC'er is going through an emotional life changing adjustment. The Midlife transition that becomes a crisis is a confusing time for the MLC'er. They seriously cannot see what they are doing when they rip their families and marriage asunder. They feel they are doing the right thing for themselves, and their actions are viewed as weakness and selfishness.

A WAS is someone who generally has been through a great deal in the marriage, and because he/she lacks communication skills, and the knowledge to bring about a change of circumstances; will choose to walk away rather than face the issues at hand, blow it all into the open and try to work it out.
That is generally seen as a weakness and also selfishness on WAS' part.

In either circumstances, OW/OM could be involved..but the situations are very different.

Also in both circumstances, neither give the LBS a chance to "fix" what went wrong. The WAS may turn back, the MLC'er may not.

I've read that the WAS is in a confused state similar to the MLC'er; but I think the confusion is not as deep as the MLC'er's.

I seriously believe, the major difference is in the knowledge of what each is doing. The WAS is well aware of what they are doing, the MLC'er is not until a much later time; when, hopefully, they start coming forward and facing their issues.

I realize I have referred to MLC'ers and WAS as one and the same before; my mistake.
Their actions are at times the same, but the awarenesses are not.

Did this help?

[Cadet]

So to summarize the difference is confusion.

MLC'er has confusion

WAS no confusion.

But there must be sichs that are in between with masked depression that the WAS is in fact in a MLC but the LBS can not see the confusion. ??? Later this will show up.

[cat04]

Hello Mach1,

I see a lot of newer posters that seem to define success at DBing by their left ring finger....

The success of a marriage has NOTHING to do with what's on their left finger; I learned long ago that ring is a "symbol" not a feeling. It doesn't matter if the ring is worn or not;

HB,

While this was a nice answer...

I believe Mach was trying to find out if you define SUCCESS by whether the Marriage is reconciled or not…

Personally, I believe that if you do the work, heal yourself, do your best not to create any more hurt while going through this cycle and GROW as a person, becoming better, truer, more grounded through this process…whether the M is saved or not is irrelevant.

Because you are successful as a person…

Maybe you could take some time to post what your views are about YOU if your marriage would not have been rebuilt.

Would you still have lived, and been a better person regardless ?

I am now a person of a strength, a firm believer in the Lord, who believes that all things happen for a reason.

Yes your M was reconciled and you grew throughout the process….

Would you be this same person now? Would you have taken the opportunity to grow and heal? Or did you do all of that after the reconciliation?

Believe it or not, I have NEVER wondered what it would have been like if I'd taken another path. I have been frustrated and angry, and sometimes had second guessed myself about the decision I made

This sounds like a bit of a contradiction. Which, in reality, it is ok to second guess yourself at times. It is part of the reflection process.

HB,

While I have great respect for your faith, and I too am a person of great Faith and believe I would not be where I am if it were not by the grace of God, not everyone has that same strength, or the “insight” that you speak of having.

Don’t you think all of the time and words put into this would be better spent trying to help people understand that love does not end. It can change it’s appearance but it does not die, just like God’s love for us does not end or die regardless of what we may do?

God helps those who help themselves, and that is where people need to begin. By helping themselves….

If we don’t help ourselves, we too may end up traveling the MLC road that we are now only briefly participating in….

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi OP,

But there must be sichs that are in between with masked depression that the WAS is in fact in a MLC but the LBS can not see the confusion. ??? Later this will show up.

Anything can happen..and that is very, very possible.

[flowmom]

MLC'er has confusion

WAS no confusion.

How would one know that the spouse is confused?

[HeartsBlessing]

Hello Cat04,

As always, thank you for your observations, I always can stand to learn some more.

I took Mach1's questions for what they were and answered them.
I re-read my post; and believe I answered the questions.

Yours seem to be a "fleshing out" of what he's asking.

I feel I would have been a successful person regardless if my marriage had made it or not. It was a place I had to make it to even though I was married, still. That same place would most likely have been gotten to if things had been different and had fallen apart as a result of choices on either side; his or mine.

Being a successful person is NOT so much about what you do, it is about WHO you are and how you deal when facing obstacles and trials and what you become when you're finished with each.
That same success contains elements of an open mind and heart, with capability of seeing the good AND the bad...with the added components of being able to accept ALL that happens, learn from it, heal from it if necessary and get on with your life.

I feel I have done these things and CONTINUE to do these things, and WOULD have done these regardless of how this had turned out. Either way, I would have been just fine.
People are complicated, and in a lot of ways, I'm NO different than anyone else.

I navigate LIFE on a daily basis; dealing with things as they come about and each person must learn to do that, regardless of circumstances.

My opinion, neither right or wrong, just mine.

Would you be this same person now?
Would you have taken the opportunity to grow and heal? Or did you do all of that after the reconciliation?

In first two questions, you were asking me to speculate on something I will never know. To me, that would be time wasted, when I clearly chose a different path.
The "What if" questions would not have been answered to my satisfaction, which is also a reason I didn't chose a path away from my husband. I didn't see that particular reason until later on. That's why hindsight is 20/20.

Yet,
I DID answer those questions, I gave them "most likely, yes" answers..but no one ever knows for sure what they will do if an alternate path is taken. Until the path is walked, no one can know or even speculate.

The third question, the answer is NO, I did not wait until reconciliation to heal and grow; the growing and healing was ongoing throughout, in stages or I couldn't have handled my husband as he came forward.

The total healing from this part of my life came long after reconciliation...but the growing has NEVER stopped; I will always learn something new everyday of my life.

If I had not opened myself to what was possible for ME after I 'got it'; I could not and would not have been able to see the finish line on this, continuing on through this. There was a process I worked though, as he was coming through..the SAME things the LBS' are advised to do, as the MLC'er is doing their thing.

On a side note; I could NOT have written all that I wrote had I still been buried within my own pain, unable to see what was happening.

This sounds like a bit of a contradiction. Which, in reality, it is ok to second guess yourself at times. It is part of the reflection process.

Second guessing, and wondering what it would have been like if a different decision made, to me, is something different.
But then, that's ME, and everyone sees things differently; doesn't mean they're wrong, just different.

Looking at this again, I see you're right, yet another contradiction of a type...but perception is not always a one-way window...it has many sides, many aspects.

Don’t you think all of the time and words put into this would be better spent trying to help people understand that love does not end. It can change it’s appearance but it does not die, just like God’s love for us does not end or die regardless of what we may do?

Goes back to love being a "choice" just as God chooses to love, so we choose to love.

This is but one of many aspects of the trials of life, Cat. Many times in times past, I've spoken of love, and how it changes it's face, never stays the same, it waxes and wanes, etc.
I've also spoken of attaining a human version of God's Unconditional love, and He is the one who bestows that for the asking.
That's but ONE factor in this..there are other things, such as reality of ones situation, the lot that's been cast, the burden that's carried, the decisions that are made, the deep hurt that's sustained.....plain love and doing nothing else, will NOT fix everything; I wish it did. Learning to stand up
We are, through this crisis alone, taught 'self love', which simply means to love ourselves enough to protect ourselves from people who would hurt us. Christian does not mean "doormat" and even Jesus took care of himself in His time here on this earth. Just as He sets boundaries we cannot cross, so must we.
Love must be tough, it must be strong, and the boundaries we are coached to set, are that form of "self-love"..it is NOT selfishness; it is necessary care for ourselves.

People come to the understanding about how love truly works on their own; through their OWN journeys...I can talk until I'm blue in the face, but, in the end, their comprehension will be somewhat different than what I see. Whatever works for their situation is what they will utilize, and it won't always be love in the foreground at all times. And the person on the receiving end of "tough love" will NOT see it as "love". Neither will someone who doesn't understand what love really is..and the Bible gives a full definition. Love is a mult-faceted, non-touchable CHOICE.

We can love everyone but NOT agree with their actions. Yet, that love may not change, because love, is NOT dependent on actions. God loves us in spite of what we do, because He chooses to do this. We love Him because He first loved us.
And showed it in a mighty way. He separates our behavior from His love for us as a person. We need to learn this as well, as this is evidence of Unconditional love.
No matter what people do, we still love them, and will let them go if necessary to keep us from being harmed through their actions toward us.
The Bible says He has called us to peace, exhorting us to let go if someone doesn't want to stay with us.
God is no different about protecting Himself; sin and He cannot coeixt in the same body; and He will remove Himself if repentance is not reached for that sin.
But He STILL loves that person.

There are sins against Him and there are sins against people, but that is a whole other subject entirely. Forgiveness must be asked for and attained from Him and hopefully the people who have been sinned against in each circumstance.

God helps those who help themselves, and that is where people need to begin. By helping themselves….

The Lord also sends people and resources to help us understand so we CAN help ourselves. Without understanding, we cannot move forward, and stay stuck in our circumstances.
He will aid our efforts but will NOT do it FOR us; it is part of our learning.

Until I understood, I didn't know what to do to help myself; I've been there, and so understand very well what you're saying.

My time here and elsewhere is sometimes spent teaching what I've learned to others. And love is but ONE of the many lessons I've passed on to others. I have explained things in many different ways to help people increase their understanding..and I know I'm NOT alone. There are others out doing the same things I do.

I would NOT say that I NEVER made mistakes, nor fallen down, nor done things in my life that I had, at one time, wished I could change. I NEVER say I'm better or worse than anyone else.

If they do not understand, they will NOT attempt to move forward, because of fear, etc. So, I attempt to help expand their understanding, then forward onto other things as they come about.

If we do not stop to help, we are NO better than the person that is down and lacks understanding..and that is my opinion about this.

Yet, you DO have people whose minds are totally closed, and these, you have to let go after a period of time; they will get it or they won't. These are the ones who won't help themselves, so the Lord won't help them.

If we don’t help ourselves, we too may end up traveling the MLC road that we are now only briefly participating in….

Not necessarily.....
Even though I took the journey while my husband was going through the tunnel, his MLC helped to trigger ANOTHER journey, the Mid Life Transition; and this one was MINE.
And it was a ROUGH journey for me.
It hit me by surprise; I'd thought since I'd navigated these deep waters with him, it would "skip" me..I was WRONG.

Regardless of whether you help yourself or not, the Mid Life Adjustment or Transition that could transition into a crisis depending on how you face it, MUST be navigated anyway, as EACH and EVERY person undertakes this journey.

It is possible for one spouse to go through, then the other; or even both to go through at the SAME TIME.

The hormonal imbalance and emotional adjustment; while seen as the same are actually separated, somewhat. As Snodderly says, and she's right..you can go through Menopause and STILL have a MLC.

So, don't think for a second that because you take this particular journey that you will get out of what the MLC'er goes through. It may be in a milder form, or a stormy form, but right through you will go, and when it's time for you.

Sorry, but it's true.

Have a good one.

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi Flowmom,

Actions will generally speak louder than words. A MLC'er's ACTIONS are generally confused, not just their minds.

Anyone who is confused can act this same way, but it is short lived on a normal person. It is lengthy while in the tunnel of MLC.

This what I think from all I've read/experienced; Anyone else with anything say, jump right in.

The confusion clearly shows on a MLC'er; through "MLC speak" and odd actions; where it is mostly hidden on a WAS, if it even exists. It shows on a WAS most of the time when he/she is in an affair, and that affair comes to the surface, resulting them getting caught, or getting caught at anything they're not supposed to be doing.
But the confusion in a WAS is short lived, and their true intentions do come through, causing a great deal of hurt, and most of the time they get dumped; OR if the wronged spouse takes them back and the issues behind this character flaw are not addressed, the behavior repeats itself.

Whereas:

A MLC'er is constantly confused from the word go, until their minds start to clear if they ever do. Assuming they come on through and change..none of the behaviors is ever repeated.
In an ideal situation, they learn, most of all to love in a way that NONE of them have even learned in their lives, making a true connection for the first time in their lives.

A WAS also exhibits a character fault, a flaw, if you will, where their morals are compromised, that has always have been within them, raising red flags that their spouses didn't see/heed. Past history also contained red flags, but is ignored, and most of the time, a pattern of bad behavior has been established; in the evidence of multiple marriages, that were torn apart because of the WAS' infidelities.
Unfortunately, there are some very mean people in this world who are sneaky, selfish, and out for themselves.

A MLC'er didn't just decide one day to go out and do what they are doing to hurt anyone; these are/were generally stable spouses who always took responsibility. I realize that some of these MLC'ers also may have had multiple marriages, but the red flags that would attribute to WAS may very well be missing; the MLC'er may have been on the receiving end of the hurt, instead of hurting his/her former spouses.

It is extremely hard to tell the difference; you have to know the spouse very well, or think you do.

My husband had always been a stable man, taking responsbility..when he went into the tunnel; a sneaking, selfish man lurked there for the longest.

He said things that did NOT make any sense to me, but I remembered what he had been as I learned about MLC, and so chose to wait.

None of the behaviors he exhibited within the tunnel has been repeated, not even the MLC affair.

I knew him as he had been, and once I started forward, I figured he would have to come back to what he was..a chance I took in waiting. What I did get was a different man, tender, loving, yet some things don't change; but many things do and did.

But, during his time in the tunnel, other signs were seen that pointed toward Menopause and Mid life changes; signs that would NOT be seen within a true WAS. Physical changes that indicated something was changing within him.

Knowledge is truly power, and you must learn to discern the differences between. That's NOT easy to do.


I do not know if this will help; this is deep waters, indeed.

I've known MLC'ers besides my husband, and I've known, but not dealt with WAS directly; done alot of listening to their wives/LBS'....the behavior is similar but not exactly the same. The level of confusion factor between the two seems to be the the one sign that makes the difference between them.