Positive Moments In Time

[K4D]

how are your situps coming along?
you said a while ago you were going to do them?
where you at?

SM,

I am back on the treadmill again. Does that count?

Kevin

[Steve McQueen]

as long as you are in the back row and cutie in front of you runs faster and wont talk to you ;-)
then you do situps!!!!!!!!!
spring's coming

[K4D]

SM,

I hate situps. lol. And I hate pushups. I love the treadmill. Smooth and easy. Gets the job done with a healthy diet.

Had a cutie on the treadmill beside me last night. She kept looking over at me. But I didn't talk to her. I just finished exercising and then headed home.

Kevin

[Startingover2]

Love the new Kevin!

[The Wifey]

The perspective above, and your Counselor, are in my view COMPLETELY opposed to the DBing, solution-based perspective and everything MWD teaches.

I never hear MWD worry about "cake-eating". I hear her say to be a friend no matter what.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm

Being a friend does NOT mean allowing cake-eating. Cake eating is when they can do anything they want without consequences and we kow-tow to every demand in hopes they will change.

You CAN be a friend without allowing cake eating. Nice, polite, non-accusatory behavior does not mean you lay down and take everything they dish out.

I never hear her say "give them some consequences". I hear her say to work and focus on ourselves, and give them something great to come back to.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_why_change.htm

If you rescue them from every consequence then what do they have to reconsider? You aren't giving them the consquences. They make a choice and the consequences result.

Eg, if the WA moves out and all of a sudden finds out they don't have enough money to live the lifestyle they are used to then you are really sorry to hear that. It DOES NOT mean you fork over more of your income to make that comfy lifestyle happen.

Our wives have become Aliens. Whether through health, family and addiction problems like mine, or different issues like Kev's, they are not themselves right now. It took a very long time for things to get this bad, and it'll take a long time to recover.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_walkaway_wife.htm

Yes, it is a marathon. But you have not yet understood all of the implications of DR.

Finally, where do you get this idea that having good family time actually hurts the kids? What? I've heard CG say it also. I'm sorry, that's the kind of divorce counseling, "they'll be fine" B.S. that makes MWD so effective as an alternative. Just my .02

Kids have a very good sense of what is fair. If Mom treats Dad like crap and Dad then fawns all over Mom regardless of the treatment, bends at every turn, etc, they know BS when they see it.

Just being in the company of each other does not necessarily constitute "Family time."

I would suggest you do some more reading. Every time you read DR you will learn something new.

[jon2911]

OK, that makes sense. Let me say that kids are not involved in my sitch, so I have no concept of that. W can play like we're a nice family, then completely change the next day, and I chalk it up to how a depressed person with chronic pain (AKA most of our aliens) acts. I don't have to worry about daughters being affected by her antics.

I still don't think Kev did the wrong thing at Christmas. He had very good advice from 25, based on a DB counselor, to show his wife what she's missing. There you go, first 25-style bold tag I don't see how this is damaging to the girls, and even if it is I think that's a lesser concern. Again, just like everything, my .02

As for the benefits, this is very close to my heart. Health problems were the main cause of our financial and marital destruction, and W has gotten so bad she's getting government help now. If you knew her you'd know how opposed she was to that.

All through my sitch, I've been facing questions like Kevin is now. A lot of friends and family have advised me to show her consequences, not give her benefits while she's living in a different city, etc. Basically, to "punish" her.

Then, I talked to a friend who's survived cancer and been through major health problems, and I asked him about cutting off her benefits, and he said "honestly, as someone who's been through health problems, that would really piss me off".

I'm facing the decision again next month when my new benefits kick in. The more I think about it, 25 is right. It doesn't cost me, it adds a consequence to her finalizing the D, it shows love, what's the downside? I know tough consequences might wake W up, but if she hates me then, what is gained? I guess I'm just not as worked up about "cake-eating", "having it both ways", blah blah. Yes, our W's shouldn't be acting like this. No, it's not fair. But it is what it is.

Kevin, here's where I'm at for both of us: either divorce her or not. Holding off on the D but depriving her of benefits is just playing games IMO. And I'm saying that for myself also. I actually agree with her on this: you're still legally married. Thanks to 25 and everyone else for the discussion.

[K4D]

Jon,

Mine isn't coming back. I haven't had any of the positive moments that you and your W have had or others have had. There has been no turn around in my M. At best she is coparenting with me. She absolutely refuses to have anything to do with me outside of the kids. 18 months later and I can't even go to a simple lunch with just her.

She is still lying and cheating. Enough is enough.

I see no hope in my sitch.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

doesn't change the argument that it costs you nothing and if you at least use the opportunity to contrast HER behavior towards you, with YOURS towards her...that's worth something. Isn't it? And the "cake eating" is more related to them using you--e.g., for childcare while they date or some other "abusive" behavior, not just getting a benefit that costs you nothing--plus the whole "teach them consequences" thing IS NOT Dbing which says "Life teaches them consequences..."it's not your job to do that. Period. Just raise your kids...move on. See what happens...

Hey everyone-- this is a fine line at times and we all have to find it. I think when it's a close call, I'd rather err on the side of compassion than looking or being punitive. Let each of us find that fine line.

K4, I don't agree that your sitch justifies an annulment at all, and I think you are using it as an un-needed excuse to be free, BUT that does not matter. I don't have to agree with you; no one does!! THis is your life. Live it free from fear or the need for approval from others.

j-

[K4D]

K4, I don't agree that your sitch justifies an annulment at all, and I think you are using it as an un-needed excuse to be free, BUT that does not matter.

Really? Seriously? What WOULD justify an annulment to you? I'm just very curious now.

Kevin

[K4D]

25,

The catholic church does not recognize a D as an end to a M. They only recognize whether the M was valid or not. A D is nothing more than a legal peice of paper to the church.

If I don't seek an answer to whether or not my M is valid, then I am simply left with questions about it and the church will still recognize it as valid regardless of D unless they look at all the circumstances and make a ruling, at which point I know for sure where the M stands.

And yes, if they rule it was invalid from the beginning, I am "free" as you put it to seek out a new R. If they rule it was valid from the beginning which is all they are technically supposed to look at, then I am not free according to the church to seek out a R. The M still stands even if the civil system says otherwise. I couldn't feel comfortable marrying someone else down the road if the church says my original M is valid.

Kevin