I thought by mentioning that I understand what she is going thru and that I also know that it is her journey that I was showing sympathy but I do raise a few good points.
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Did you ask him why he doesn't like the changes? Don't defend them...just hear his point of view.
I did ask him a while ago and what he is looking for is the old dad that was distant. I think I may be smothering them a bit but I just feel like I am loosing them. I know this is something that I have to work on. Part of my 180 was to try and be a better dad but I think I may have gone a bit overboard. Also, since she tends to work late I try and make dinner for the kids every night. She has indicated that they can make something themselves so I guess I need to listen to that and maybe one day a week leave them on their own. The only issue I have with this is that I feel it positions them to get used to me not being around, which is not what I want but then again maybe that is controlling. Thoughts?
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Overall I wouldn't give you a failing grade...LOL. It doesn't appear that the conversation turned into a full blown fight....You just need to remember what you can discuss without implying anything about your relationship or her journey.
Lost - it has been almost 6 months and all i keep hearing is how we are getting D. I feel like I need to try something different but I just do not know what I could do. She on the other hand has been pretty darn cosistent about the D going thru. I only have a few months left, assuming that she sticks with her Sept timeline. With the relationship with OM in full swing I kind of feel like I am fighting a loosing battle.
Quote: 1) Can we agree to sit every Wednesday and discuss the upcoming schedule re: the kids. I will reaffirm that our discussion should be centered around the kids and not us.
Treading on dangerous water...can be done, but you have to keep it based on the kids. I would almost have a written note with all the kids activities for the week.[/quote]
Yes my plan is to keep it focused on the kids. What I would like to do is create a calendar that outlines the kids activities. Does this sound okay?
Finally, do I even try and set some goals for the R. I mean I feel like the only thing I am doing is looking at myself and leaving her alone. I don't feel like I am making any progress and the preasure of Sept looms over my head. I know that Sept may come and pass but she seem dead set on it. I guess I feel like throwing in the towel but I won't trust me I won't.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Eric if no one else has said this before just remember that everything you learn on these boards is for you. Don't share any of this knowledge with your W. It is your secret weapon.
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.
You don't want to give her the DR book or the DB book or the existence of this website.
I completely agree. He is 16 and you are not the man that he has known all of his life. Just keep going and doing, he will learn to appreciate it.
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By discussing her "journey"...you are implying something is wrong with her. Until she accepts that something might be wrong...there is nothing wrong.
I want to repeat this. There is NOTHING WRONG with your W. She IS NOT on a journey.
Like it or not, that did not go over well at all...
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I also said that I will be her friend and understood that she has difficulty with this right now. She agreed that she has difficulty with me being her friend.
Be careful with this one. Her definition of friend and yours can vary greatly.
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2) Can we agree that if any of the kids mention something to us about one of us that we will share the information with each other.
Not such a good idea. If she wants to share, then she will, but to be honest, to betray your children's confidence in you like that is not the best thing.
Originally Posted By: LostforWords
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3) Can we agree not to suggest that either of us are going thru our own "issues".
Dang...I think Eric just got tossed under a bus. I can see you wife's response "Our issues...You are the one with issues {door slam}{splat sound as eric hits pavement}". Your issues are your issues Eric. No need to share them with her or the children. Work on yourself...for yourself.
God what a visual...
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4) Can we agree to keep things as normal as possible for the kids. For example do not bring up D?
While it is possible to do this, I think you want this more to allieviate your own fear when you hear the D word.
Try to find another way to remove that fear...
Originally Posted By: Lostforwords
don't move out! Read that again...Don't move out. If she wants to move out...than let her. Otherwise...don't move out.
While living with a MLCer has many downfalls, I do agree with this...
If she needs to move, let her move...
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Lost - it has been almost 6 months and all i keep hearing is how we are getting D.
I heard these words from 1998 to 2000. Then again from 2007 to mid 2009. I am still legally M.
Guess what, words are just words sometimes, until someone puts an action to them...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
She has indicated that they can make something themselves so I guess I need to listen to that and maybe one day a week leave them on their own. The only issue I have with this is that I feel it positions them to get used to me not being around,
Why can't you be around to supervise, or help them, or make them make YOU dinner.
I know 16 year olds don't want anything to do with their "rents" but I think you could find a way to bond with them and let them be making their own decisions. They have to learn how to fly some time if they are going to be leaving the nest soon.
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I only have a few months left, assuming that she sticks with her Sept timeline.
This is something else that you need to let go of. When did she set this time line. My guess is that she was putting it(D) off until the future so that she didn't have to deal with it right now. Its just a mythical made up date. You can not fear it! If you keep trying to FIX the R the date will become more and more real. Stop trying to do that. You need to act "as if" everything is OK.
Lets get back to those list of what we need to do to "FIX" ERIC because that is something that YOU can control. Not her, not your R, but only YOU.
You probably are a bit. The truth is...you are new to it. So you can't be found at fault. In time you learn to act with each of them in a way they appreciate. The older son...he is developing into a man...that is his journey. So just like you or I, he needs that space to become the man he is to become. On dinner....how is this for a suggestion. Your two oldest are old enough to make dinner. So why not let them pick the menu and make one meal a night on their own? You just supply some supervision, encouragement, and the groceries. You can even offer to help...but they have to direct you. Sounds fun to me.
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Lost - it has been almost 6 months and all i keep hearing is how we are getting D. I feel like I need to try something different but I just do not know what I could do. She on the other hand has been pretty darn cosistent about the D going thru. I only have a few months left, assuming that she sticks with her Sept timeline. With the relationship with OM in full swing I kind of feel like I am fighting a loosing battle.
Stop focusing on September....it is unhealthy. This all takes time....a lot of time. For almost two years I heard how awful I was and how my wife couldn't stand being here....for two years. I mean down right awful stuff and actions.....so what! I let it roll off as much as possible....and I am were I am today, because I rose above. I accepted that it will take time and as long as I did all the right things....I would be better for it. Do you know that in China students don't fret about getting an "A"...the fret about doing the right thing everyday knowing that by doing the right thing everyday they will get an "A". Realize the difference is thinking that way is so slight....but a lot more successful.
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Finally, do I even try and set some goals for the R. I mean I feel like the only thing I am doing is looking at myself and leaving her alone.
Are you feeling better about yourself? Are you making positive changes in how you do things? Are you doing the right things? Think like the student that knows doing the right things will get an "A"....so there is no need for the goals. Unless of course you are planning on running the marathon...then you had better start training pretty quick.
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trust me I won't
I believe that....you are getting what it takes. There are still going to be some bumps, but you are getting it. Soon you will be here with Jack, Mach, Bworl, OP, HB, and others....see I believe that doing the right things WILL give the desired results.
1) Can we agree to sit every Wednesday and discuss the upcoming schedule re: the kids. I will reaffirm that our discussion should be centered around the kids and not us.
How about implementing a calender.....just for you , but post it somewhere that it is accessible to all...????
Ask your kids to utilize it, and see what happens...
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
2) Can we agree that if any of the kids mention something to us about one of us that we will share the information with each other.
Bad idea.....
An MLCer is like a Cat...when they are done playing, the claws come out and they WILL find a way out if the situation....
Like your eyes?
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
3) Can we agree not to suggest that either of us are going thru our own "issues".
Can YOU quit bringing it up ?
When you feel like mentioning that she is going "through" something.....go find an electrical outlet and stick a butter knife in it....
Less fireworks that way...
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
4) Can we agree to keep things as normal as possible for the kids. For example do not bring up D?
Define normal first....not to me, not to her, to YOU...
Originally Posted By: ericmsant2
In short, what I am trying to do is to make sure that both of us follow the same set of rules regarding the kids. Although I do not want to mention the D I do want to know if she is amendable to giving my the kids half the time. Thoughts on this?
Your rules and hers are going to vary a lot.....
Your changes in your interest of what is going on in the home, are going to be veiwed as controlling....
Do YOUR thing....and stick to it.
Not for her OR the kids, just because it is who YOU want to be now....
Calender-Great idea with kids. I have different colored pens for each person and it has become my life line to keeping house stuff in order (I use outlook for my business stuff). Now everything goes on there...for me or else I won't be able to keep up. Yeah...my kids are busy and I can only imagine 3 or more.
Like Mach said....just do it for you. Just worry about putting stuff up that involves you or the kids. If she wants to participate good...if not...so what!
I meant to post this earlier....put I had four kids here and that wasn't on my calender...lol
Of course the answer technically is yes. But all of us, and we men especially, have to learn quickly that stopping a divorce is not a direct set of actions.
Divorcebusting is indirect.
You've heard or read possibly experienced people here say that db'ing is counter-intuitive, meaning simply that it goes almost directly opposite of what our intincts tell us to do.
You have to find a way to stop approaching this like a man trying to figure out how to fix a leaking faucet. It's just not going to work well with that kind of approach.
If your wife is MLC - hell, even if she's just a WAW - your words to her are never a benefit to you. At best she will just ignore most of what you say - at worst she will find a way to use them against you. I still haven't figured out how this is so, but it turns out that even the most wigged out MLC'er seems to do two things incredibly well
- smell bs from us a MILE away, and - find a way to turn things that we've said back against us
This is why relationship talks are avoided. This is why we don't talk about their "journey." By the way, I think the others are spot on when they say that you mentioning that she is on a journey just probably pissed her off more than anything else.
At this point you're probably wondering, "So what the hell AM I supposed to do to save my marriage?"
The answer is to let it go.
You know, drop the rope?
I used a bad analogy one time of being out walking your beloved dog (with a SUPER LONG leash so that the story makes sense), who at some point wanders off and gets lost.
You realize your dog has disappeared and you worry. At some point your dog realizes that she has wandered too far off and starts to worry. But along the way she has wrapped that leash in and out of all kinds of things.
You're now pulling with all your might trying to get your pooch back.
Your dog is also straining at the leash trying to get back to you.
But there are far too many tangles to ever let that happen.
So how do you eventually get her back?
You let go of the leash...
Letting go makes it possible for her to come back to you.
Change your mind Eric. You have made a great start, you ARE making progress, but you still have to let go of your natural instincts to try to SAVE.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Bill - You are right I must let go of her. I have to tell you though this is hard. I really love this women and feel like I totally f this one up. You pretty much hit the nail on the head when you said that I am still trying everything possible to fix and save my M. Ss usual you are right - I can’t fix it.
I’m pressing with the kids – I’m doing so much soul searching that quite frankly I do not even know who the hell I am anymore. I’m not even sure how to find who I want to be. I acknowledge that I totally lost myself in this M. Part of me want to say F-it and just go and live my life in peace. This sh*t is really hard.
I acknowledge that I am controlling. I acknowledge that I can be paralyzed by fear. I feel short changed by all of this. I feel like I have been crapped on. I just hurt. I feel helpless and depressed. Not only did I lose my W I lost a whole family.
Every one say to go GAL…Well, I need to find the balance to do this. I can tell my W sees some of the changes but she knows that they are an attempt to win her back. I have tied to help out around the house but every time I do something I kind of go overboard with it. I was always one to help – always helped with dishes, etc. The biggest problem is that I took her for granted and I tried to control her. How then can I possibly show her that I no longer take her for granted? I feel like sitting her not saying a word is doing nothing. I feel like sitting here while she is off having her fun is totally f up.
I so want to go up to the guy that she is having an EA and beat the living…well you know – but everyone tells me not to confront her about it. I do understand why but I still feel I need to say something to her to let her know that I do not appreciate it.
I think I know my W and I can tell you that 9 times out of 10 once she makes up her mind she’s done. You guys tell me to act as if….well if I was to act as if – I would pack up my [censored] and call it a day. Sorry guys I really just pissed and frustrated.
I need to rethink if I can do this. At a min. I need to really GAL and take my balls back cause right now I am operating completely out of fear and she can smell. If she gonna file then F – it go ahead.
Her day off and she goes out…I’m home doing all the stuff she did not do. This freaking sucks.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
