WAH in MLC with PA

[DiamondGirl]

I know I deserve a 2x4 for replying without waiting and/or offering my response on the board for tweaking but I'd appreciate comments/suggestions for further interactions with H just the same...H is in college and has his March break starting next week...How badly did I react? What could I have said different?


Email exchange this morning initiated by H:

H:*sister2* is going to pick up the kids tommorrow night at 6pm

Me: Who will be returning them?

H: The pope print that one

Me: Why the sarcasm? I have a right to know who will be dropping off the kids.... A simple question should have a simple answer...

<no answer>

Me:I'm assuming since you didn't respond then the answer would be one of your sisters will be dropping the kids off on Sunday... Right?

H: As you so fondly tell me whatever

Me: Will you be seeing them at all this weekend? Or are you starting your March break early? Because the visits are for you and them.. and I need to prepare S13 and D3 if they won't be seeing you this weekend as they are looking forward to it..

H:Don't! Question my fathering! None of your business what I do with my children on my time!

Me:I am not questioning your fathering... I never did and never will.. you are a good father...

I am merely asking if they are going to be dropped off on Sunday by one of your sisters or by you.. and if not by you, then I need to know if you will not be seeing them this weekend as I need to know to prepare them for not being able to see you.. because they are excited and know it is your weekend to see them..

I am not being sarcastic, merely trying to communicate with you as a co-parent.

H:What would make you think I wouldn't be seeing them it's my time with them is it not?

H:Interesting
No answer anyways I'll be dropping them off at 6 Sunday

Me:(in the meantime of above message)Yes it is... and I don't know why you are blowing this out of proportion.. I merely asked who would be dropping them off.. simple question.. I'm not saying you won't be seeing them.. but you, by not merely responding to my question, are indicating to me that you have something you don't want me to know... like perhaps you won't be there...

I am quite aware next week you will be off all week for college March break... I don't know if you are working all week or going away... not my concern..

The children, however, are my main concern and I need to know if you will be working all weekend and won't see them or if you are going away early for your March break and won't see them because of that.. They are children with emotions and expectations of seeing their father.. I need to prepare them if they won't see you because they will be disappointed... And if you will be seeing them, then there is no issue, just my original question as to who will be dropping them off and when.. Which I am entitled to know as their mother...

Perhaps if you treated me with the respect I deserve as their mother, we could have this conversation by phone some day.

I will not accept being treated as a criminal when I have not done anything wrong to you. I will not accept you yelling or purposely trying to hurt me verbally or in person. I respect myself too much to put up with that from anyone. If you choose to yell at me on the phone or try to disrespect me in any way, I will hang up on you.


Me: I am at work, by the way, and am responding to you between working at my job. Sorry if you don't feel it is quick enough however I need to keep my job to support our children.

H:I'm gonna say this once
Respect for you went out the window the day you used our kids as a pawn in your childish game
There will be no more talk between us because I have never felt so much hate as I do for you
Either myself or one of my sisters will pick up our kids every Friday when it's my time with them and drop them off at 6 on Sundays
Goodbye

Me:I am not playing games. And I am not the one using the children as pawns. You were the one who said that either I sign the custody documents as you would like them or you would change your mind about my having the house and tax refund as promised when you originally left. You also changed your mind about leaving most of your paycheques in the bank while you are in school to use for our expenses as a result of my not signing your version of the agreement.

I have always indicated to you that you may see the children on weeknights as well, however you have yet to take me up on that.

This whole exchange shows the reason why there is no way that Joint Custody would work between us. And that is the reason why I objected to listing "Joint custody" on the documents. You cannot even discuss a pick up and drop off without turning it into an issue. How can we decide things together if you cannot even communicate with me in a civil manner without acting ignorant.

As for your sisters picking up or dropping off the children, unless you are working, I expect you to do so as they are our children and not your sisters' responsibility now that you have a car. And, unless I am working, I will be there as well. I am working tomorrow night, however, I will be there on Sunday.

As for your feelings of hate towards me, you might want to ask yourself why you still hate me so much, considering as far as you are concerned, our marriage has been over for years. According to what you said you wanted, you should be feeling quite happy and relieved since you no longer have me or the daily responsibility of the children to keep you from being "free".

H: Being free!
You selfish women!
How easily you forget I was the one who worked while you sat at home doing god knows what
I cooked cleaned and put our kids to bed
Did laundry and work around the house and all I got from you was I can't get motivated today

So how dare you lazy women stand there in judgement of me!

Me:I know that is how you see things and I know now that you felt that all you were was a convenience. However I never felt that way about you or saw you with anything less than love and respect in my heart, but unfortunately, I didn't know how to show you differently at the time.

You were an awesome father, better than my own. And I felt very much out of my element because I didn't know what a true family life full of love and emotion was like. You and your family taught me what a family should be, and I am striving to show that kind of family life for our children. I put them to bed at night (when I am not working) and bath, play and care for them and our home to the best of my ability now. And I can only see that getting better the more I learn through this journey I am now on to improve myself and our children's lives.

Our parents and upbringing were not good role models for us and didn't provide us with the life and relationship skills we needed to know how to fix our marriage and communicate properly when things got tough. We looked outside of our marriage in different ways for solutions when we should have turned inward and trusted our bond with each other.

In any case, that marriage is done. Both of us are different people now and both of us deserve to treat each other with respect because we have children who are looking to us as their role models.

I hope that one day we can talk by phone or in person without disrespect.


<<no response from H>>

Found out from SIL1 that H didn't get his pay this week.. some admin error...thus he was primed when he emailed me...

Okay.. bring it on..

[cat04]

How badly did I react? What could I have said different?

Because you asked...

Me: Why the sarcasm? I have a right to know who will be dropping off the kids.... A simple question should have a simple answer...

First mistake. You should have said nothing more than ok and the rest of the interaction would probably not have happened.

I say probably because my H, has on occasion continued his spew, when I wasn't even listening.

Me:I'm assuming since you didn't respond then the answer would be one of your sisters will be dropping the kids off on Sunday... Right?

H: As you so fondly tell me whatever

Another opportunity to let it drop. For your own sake.

Me: Will you be seeing them at all this weekend? Or are you starting your March break early? Because the visits are for you and them.. and I need to prepare S13 and D3 if they won't be seeing you this weekend as they are looking forward to it..

You asked for too much information and actually did imply that he didn't know what the visits were for, IMO...

I am merely asking if they are going to be dropped off on Sunday by one of your sisters or by you.. and if not by you, then I need to know if you will not be seeing them this weekend as I need to know to prepare them for not being able to see you.. because they are excited and know it is your weekend to see them..

I am not being sarcastic, merely trying to communicate with you as a co-parent.

Here you have been put in the position of defending yourself and trying to reason with someone who is not able to reason.

You opened the door for more spew...

but you, by not merely responding to my question, are indicating to me that you have something you don't want me to know... like perhaps you won't be there...

This is you now accusing him of lying and covering up...which we all know MLCer's DON'T do...

I am quite aware next week you will be off all week for college March break... I don't know if you are working all week or going away... not my concern..

You know too much about what he is doing, and you asked, so he knows you are concerned...

I will not accept being treated as a criminal when I have not done anything wrong to you. I will not accept you yelling or purposely trying to hurt me verbally or in person. I respect myself too much to put up with that from anyone. If you choose to yell at me on the phone or try to disrespect me in any way, I will hang up on you.

This is a good boundary, however, you continued to correspond with him, thus breaking it.

If you set a boundary, you MUST be prepared to reinforce it immediately because they will walk all over you if you don't.

I think you get the idea.

These sorts of interactions are not good for either of you.

This is when you really have to let him be to his own devices. I understand that there are children involved and you are concerned for them, but your H will not see it that way, which is evidenced by this interaction.

Unfortunately, and many might get upset with me for saying this, but this is one of those situations, where you children may HAVE to be disappointed instead of being prepared.

IMO, let them have their relationship, you can't always cover for their Dad. It is hard. It sucks. But believe me, eventually, they will learn this lesson no matter how hard you try to keep it from them.

[Cyrena]

Diamond Girl,

Okay, that whole exchange really didn't work for you. The thing is, I think you know that. It only added fuel to his anger and made you look controlling. Rather than beat yourself up about it (or wait for the 2x4s to fly), why don't you think about how to CHANGE this dynamic?

You can get blood out of a stone more easily than co-operation out of your H. Therefore, the only person you can control is you. Since I'm sure it doesn't feel good to engage in escalating battles, visualize what the opposite would look like. Perhaps you could stick--politely--only to the necessities? If he makes a stupid response like "The pope print that one," ignore. Does it really matter who brings them back? Can you REALLY prepare your children for anything that happens outside your watch--don't you just have to leave that to your H?

Don't beat yourself up for what's happened, but really think about what would make you feel calm and detached from an email exchange, and next time you feel the urge to hit "send," wait a good half hour instead. Then, delete as necessary. Believe me, I used to be one of those people who'd go crazy when my H would say something rude/accusing and follow him from room to room to argue it out. It felt SO GOOD when I learned to drop all that--and, it gave him the space to think about apologizing for what he'd said, rather than blaming me for the escalation.

When your H says "print it out," does he mean that he thinks you're documenting his difficult emails? If so, all the more reason to avoid the petty bickering.

[DiamondGirl]

Thank you for your response. It was extremely helpful for me to see the cues I should have read to drop it... I seem to miss those too often..

I had a goal in mind this morning before the email from H was received...and it was to get to a point where we *could* talk on the phone or face to face without disrespect. To set a boundary with H... I think I still had it in mind but went about it the wrong way.

[cat04]

Honey,

They are hard to see when you are in the midst of the emotional struggle....It is ok...

The goal, while admirable, is probably a long way off...and won't be achieved by continued interactions like this one...

But, as you stop your part of the conversation, eventually, the goal may be able to be reached.

[DiamondGirl]

Thank you for your feedback and direction.

I've been working on the controlling thing but need to be more conscious of it obviously..

One of the problems in our R was the lack of boundaries. And I wasn't raised in an environment with healthy ones. So I've been trying to work on mine now... But I'm not sure on how to set them with people without setting them off..

I'm not taking the email exchange as anything other than another learning opportunity. At this point no matter what all his anger for everything going wrong with him is directed at me anyway... it's just hard to take sometimes when all you want to hear is positive from him...

I think OW told him to watch what he says as I probably was printing the emails out.. (which I am in case I need them.. but I don't want to need them...)

[Cyrena]

I'd suggest you could practice setting boundaries with family, girlfriends, neighbours and your kids, and save up on setting them with your H until you feel you're a pro--and you can do it without firing up your emotions.

[DiamondGirl]

I'm not beating myself up about it.. but I just feel so socially inept with all the nuances of conversation that I never knew about/realized...

It's a wonder him and I lasted this long considering how dysfunctional our communication has been all these years...and the MLC just seems to highlight it more..

I sometimes wonder if I'll ever learn all it seems that I don't know about...

[DiamondGirl]

Okay... so I spoke too soon... now I am beating myself up.. and I'm wondering how far I've set things back.. if I've set things back.. *sigh* I feel so much that this is going to be an impossible goal for me.. to learn all I need to.. and GAL.. and take care of my family... talk about mountain climbing..

I was feeling so good yesterday.. made some plans to GAL this weekend.. goals for myself..

Now I feel as if I blew it and got knocked down to bottom again..

This sucks...

[cat04]

Ok don't beat yourself up...

As far as a set back...no one knows.

My H and I, we interacted like this and only this, for well over a year....

I could take it until he pushed that last button, which he always managed to do and bingo, we had a world war on our hands...

So now, 2010, we actually get along most days. However, that is another story....