I think I'd rather be dead than this- WAW

[crushed_v95]

Quart9:

I echo Sweet Cyborg. A spouse is supposed to be a partner, a trusted friend, someone we can rely on no matter what. You have my total and unconditional support.

That said...

I know you're not going to want to hear this, but in many cases (including mine) problems exhibited by the wandering/misbehaving spouse are partly our responsibility. They do these things because they're not getting their needs met, for attention, because we didn't make our own needs clear in the beginning, etc.

I'm not telling you to take your wife back or siding with any one at all. It sounds like a very horrible tragedy. I just think we should temper our anger with a bit of realism. You loved her once. She must have been pretty awesome at one time. You both let things slide to the point where you sit today.

Remember your best day with your wife? The best of those days when she was young and pretty and you were totally in love? If you could go back to that best day and you found her in the middle of a dangerous or disastrous situation, would you have risked your own health and safety to save her?

You took her back once - do you think you would do it again (if your anger and resentment were to cease). ?

When I think about forgiveness I analogize it to this: I remember the day I got married. I went into the whole thing knowing that I may someday go through Hell for this woman. I've been through Hell. I don't know if I can rescue that girl (who is stuck inside the woman she grew into) but that's what I promised and I owe it to her (the girl I gave the ring to) to try.

My problem is that my time is running out. I'm losing myself in the process, and I have kids who need me more than she does (let's face it, she's a grown woman and can leave Hell any time she decides to). Otherwise I'd hope I would still give it my all.

My way isn't your way. It's just the way I see it.

[luvless]

When I think about forgiveness I analogize it to this: I remember the day I got married. I went into the whole thing knowing that I may someday go through Hell for this woman. I've been through Hell. I don't know if I can rescue that girl (who is stuck inside the woman she grew into) but that's what I promised and I owe it to her (the girl I gave the ring to) to try.

How freaking incredibly romantic crushed!

[Quart9]

Thank you crushed.

problems exhibited by the wandering/misbehaving spouse are partly our responsibility. They do these things because they're not getting their needs met, for attention, because we didn't make our own needs clear in the beginning, etc.

I just think we should temper our anger with a bit of realism. You both let things slide to the point where you sit today.

I agree and I see your point. I still love her and my anger is happening in waves. I see the mistakes I have made and I own up to the role I have played in all of this. I am trying to educate myself on what I need to change, improve myself, and make my part of the problem better.

Remember your best day with your wife? The best of those days when she was young and pretty and you were totally in love? If you could go back to that best day and you found her in the middle of a dangerous or disastrous situation, would you have risked your own health and safety to save her?

Man, please don't make me remember those days -haha! Yes, I would have risked life and limb for her - and here's the sad thing - if she were to call me right now, or in the middle of the night tonight, and tell me she was in trouble and needed help I would not hesitate to help her.

When I think about forgiveness I analogize it to this: I remember the day I got married. I went into the whole thing knowing that I may someday go through Hell for this woman. I've been through Hell. I don't know if I can rescue that girl (who is stuck inside the woman she grew into) but that's what I promised and I owe it to her (the girl I gave the ring to) to try.

This is a very nice thing you have said here. I know in your sitch you have been through a really tough time and you have been stronger than I'm sure I could have been - I wish your W could recognize how lucky she is to have you.

I can relate to what you are saying. However, in my sitch forgiveness has to come from both of us. She feels I have wronged her by my lack of action and by not properly playing my role as a partner to her - and I understand my errors. She is unwilling to forgive me though. I would love to be able to forgive her and throughout the day today I've been searching inside myself to see if I can. My own convictions make this tough because of the lies, betrayal, and infidelity on her part. Our road to hell has two lanes.

She feels like she has found someone else that can make her happy and she has made it clear to me that she doesn't plan to give me a chance or that this will change. It is tough for me to accept this, but I feel like I don't have a choice.

[crushed_v95]

She is unwilling to forgive me though. I would love to be able to forgive her and throughout the day today I've been searching inside myself to see if I can. My own convictions make this tough because of the lies, betrayal, and infidelity on her part. Our road to hell has two lanes.

And it's paved with good intentions too.

She feels like she has found someone else that can make her happy and she has made it clear to me that she doesn't plan to give me a chance or that this will change. It is tough for me to accept this, but I feel like I don't have a choice.

Here's the thing... My own wife has said these same things for a month. She phoned last night and gave me a double helping of her usual bonoboesque zoo cage rattling about how our fifteen years together is hell, about how I force her to verbally abuse the kids because of my bad example (I taught them to be lazy, you know), about how she's the innocent victim, etc. etc.

She seems to *say* a lot. When it comes time to actually *do* something, like, for example, file for divorce, we're waiting for ever.

Sit tight chief. Work on yourself. Pull up the dignity you dropped the last time you begged and cried in front of her. Make her follow through with the idle threats. Encourage her to leave you for the other guy. Within a week he'll stink up their love nest with a fart, pick his nose at the breakfast table and spit on the sidewalk. The thrill will be gone. In the mean time she'll begin getting nervous about leaving the devil she knows.

That's the theory in this divorce busting program, isn't it? Believe half of what they do, and nothing of what they say.

[crushed_v95]

In the mean time you should being contingency plans in case she does actually walk out. Your money (let her keep hers) should start going into separate, hidden accounts. If you live near an international border, you can stash money in a foreign account in most cases with a minimum of hassle. Canadian and Mexican banks offer US currency denominated savings and investment accounts.

You don't have kids, so you're definitely fortunate there. Imagine the damage control you'd have to do if your kids heard from their mom and grandma that "we're going to put your dad in the homeless shelter... we'll have him deported to Canada... you'll never see him again so you need to say good bye" etc.

That message was given at the end of Jan, and I'm still here, trying to assure everyone that I ain't going anywhere and that if I do they will all have the option of moving along with me to someplace better.

Move the good stuff you don't want used/stolen/damaged by the next fella into a storage locker if you can. High priced electronics, expensive firearms, pricey tools in your garage, etc.

Start checking out efficiency/studio/1br apts now, in case the s--- hits the fan at some point. Unless you're very wealthy, you'll have a rough time affording a hotel for longer than a week.

[Quart9]

Actually Crushed, my W has been following through and she needs no encouragement from me to be with OM. Sometimes I wish I received "bonoboesque zoo cage rattling" but she really has been calm and very "matter of fact" when it comes to her expressing her desire to be with OM and how she wants a D. In fact, she has been so cold about it at times that I look back and question why I ever even thought there was a chance.

More and more I am beginning to see that I was really the only one in our equation that has been draggin this out and delaying the inevitable. She tried to tell me a couple of weeks ago that she had done some research on the internet and found a way for us to get a cheap divorce (which I'm sure did not include a stipulation for me to receive spousal support), but I refused to listen and let her tell me more about it.

I've been out of our apt for almost two months now. She manipulated me into moving out because she "wanted a temporary separation and she needed to be alone for a while to evaluate if she still wanted to be married." Now I know this is standard script for "I found someone else and I'm going to screw him so pack your sh!t and get out because I'm done with you/us." Lovely.

I'm positive that if I don't petition for D first (which I'm doing the next week) I'll get the notice soon that she has done so. I agree that we are lucky we don't have kids (she has even told me herself how lucky she feels that we don't have kids or property) to deal with during this. This, I guess, will allow us to part ways and lead separate lives from now on. I dread the day when I will see a picture of her with "her and some OM's kid(S)." That really breaks my heart to think about.

We haven't separated any money yet. We talked about separating it when I initially moved out, but there really was not enough there to separate - she had spent it all by going out to bars/clubs/restaurants and shopping (I believe she TRIES to keep up with Kardashians). I'm sure any separation of funds at this point will be done in court. I still have a few things at our apt but I'm not going to get those out without notifying my L and going through the court to arrange to get them. I am on NC with her right now and she is treating me the same.

It's weird because sometimes when I am working late at night I'll hear one of my roommates and I'll think it is her up moving around or I'll make a loud noise and think "oops I hope that didn't wake her up." When I'm sleeping at night I'll reach for her or wake up and look over to see if she is there. Sometimes I'll wake up and I can't figure out where I'm at because the room looks so different. But one thing that never fails, the moment that I do open my eyes in the morning and recognize where I'm at I'm instantly hit with this sick pain of disbelief and heartache. People tell me(she even told me once), "it will get better with time." F that.

Sorry for the rant.

[crushed_v95]

hey quart:

per the alt on facebook, just search for gprovos @ gmail and add me as a friend.

ouch, i so know the sick pain of finding myself newly alone. i'm over that now, but i do sympathize, and she's correct. it will get better with time.

don't lose hope. you're a good fella.

[GH31]

G'Day Quart9,

I hope you are getting on OK and holding up. I realised I just replied to you on koliver's thread, thinking it was yours.

I know what you mean about waking up in the middle of the night and W not being there. It's absolutely harrowing and terrifying - my heart goes out to you son.

I'm ashamed to admit this but I will, my W came back to me for 9 days in April 2008 because she found out I had been dating - it really shook her up. We were in a hotel room and had both fallen asleep. When I woke up but was still half asleep I thought she wouldn't be there and started screaming her name. As soon as I realised what I was doing I pulled myself together. I also used to get an anxiety attack at work every lunchtime. No idea why but they just came like clockwork. For months.

Quart9, stay strong and hang in there mate. I know you're going through absolute hell, and I know the hell you're experiencing all too well.

best,

GH31

[Quart9]

Thank you crushed and I will look you up on FB. Thank you too GH31. I went over to BigJake's thread and read your reply.

I have been re-reading the DR. I wish included more info and guidance for people are separated.

I see where my questioning W last Sunday about whether or not she had slept with OM yet WAS NOT a solution oriented action. She woke me up by texting me (and like I said before - mornings are the worst for me) and when I talked to her and heard suspicious things in our conversation I attacked rather than saying to myself, "will my actions help us or push her father away." The texts I sent her after our conversation really were not solution based!

I feel like I really screwed up by doing this. She began the conversation kinda of cheery and told me when I began to question her that she really didn't want our convo to go that route.

I feel like I just keep doing more damage. I also feel like I really didn't give the LRT enough time to work. The DR says most affairs don't last longer than 6 months. It also says I should forgive her - for my own metal health.

Am I jumping too fast to go and petition for the D? Is all hope really lost for her and I? Should I try the "after the last resort technique?"

[Quart9]

Also, In the infidelity chapter of the DR it talks about apologizing after you overreact when discussing the affairwith your spouse. Should I call or text her and apologize for acting the way I did?