No longer "stuck808". Now my name is Bond. "MrBond

[25yearsmlc]

Bond,

The age thing is a surprise. I have to ponder that. Also, it lessens the chance of it being a PA in my opinion. Didn't she more or less describe it as an EA (or at least what we would consider an EA?) If so, I can see why...

As far as how to keep the positives going, here's what my DB coach said and I got good results with it, but not all of this is easy at all. In fact some of it is "Mother Teresa HARD" to do.
First, she said to "Applaud loudly for the 1% positives your spouse does", which is tough when so much that's normal to expect, isn't happening. You'll think she doesn't deserve it, and maybe that's true. But it does make a difference. At one point in our sitch my h and I were discussing finances. He had always paid the bills and then suddenly stopped and forgot to tell me. The electricity got cut off which was a nice touch. I told him that some bills were "falling through the cracks" and he probably thought I was going to ream him. So he blurted out "Yeah well now you can pay all the bills like I have for 20 years!" and I said, "I know and I want to thank you, b/c it really is a stressor for me and I appreciate that you did it all that time..."
H was silent for a good 30 seconds and then said..."You're welcome..."
I believe that small interchange was a pivotal one. We handled something in a whole new way, and it was a start...

Also she said to "listen like a lover" meaning when they tell you about their dreams, job, life, anything (other than an A) you support and validate. Lose all anger in front of them and anything else that's negative on your end, in their eyes...basically do 180's. You don't want to fuel her fire or help her justify her actions. That's the "contrast her negative images with positive ones" so she has to start realizing her "data" about you or you two as a couple simply isn't real, or at least not any more. The happy family stuff==go for it. The more of that to contrast with the lonely life she is also having are two pretty contrasting lives...does she really want to wallow alone in her indecision and depression or might she want to help raise and be there for her kids and stand by this man, who stands by her as you are? I hope and cling to the belief that she may ultimately stand up and say "I choose to stay..."

Another one that was hard but made sense in retrospect, is that she for me s to "Lose the parental voice"....meaning when you ask her things like "How could you do this?" OR "WHY did you hurt..." etc those questions are not designed really for discussion. They elicit defensive responses in the listener, and shame perhaps. Neither of which leads to reconciliation and the restoration of a m.
You want her inner voice (the voice that at least occasionally is saying, "WTH are you doing to your children and this man???!!" to challenge her.)

So the more you force her to defend her choices, the more you shut out that inner voice of hers. So lose that parental tone/voice and let her hear her own voice and let her examine these choices rather than defend them....which only prolongs this. Which sucks.

H4, say what you will. That's fine. But I stand by my comments b/c I think your approach is simply not what MWD promotes (not about me or mine, but HERS). And your kids thanking you at this point in their lives, means very little to me. I have no "proof", (if such is possible), whether your sitch could have worked out without the exposure, and now you'll never know, nor do I know what all your motivations were. You don't answer to me on that. And you may not even know what they were as many LBSers wrap their punishments in "teach a lesson" disguises and MWD says it's not our jobs to teach the spouses life's consequences as life does that for us. But I never said you should help or enable a cheater by lying or covering for them and I do not support that. But your sitch was very diff from Bond's, his w may not even be in a PA at all, and most important, he wasn't asking you about exposing her.

[b]I hope your sitch leads to the full restoration of your m ultimately. I really do. But I completely disagree with actively promoting the exposure of an A, & I think the more people that know it, the harder it is for a WAS to return, and another MWD comment is to Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth and exposure usually does the opposite. (I assume that's why she opposes it, plus whatever it does to the R between the children and the WAS.) It may not apply to you, but often it is a reflection of an LBSer's understandable (but unhealthy) rage that does this and their indignation that the WAS will "Get away with it" and that's not coming from a healthy or loving place. Yes, I do understand your desire for the kids to know at least that you were not 'out of the blue' mutually choosing to get a divorce. I don't think that is punitive. [/b]

Bond, do those suggestions above address your question?

j-

[MrBond]

Yes they do. I'm going to seriously be doing some of those things to my W.

As for it being an EA, when this happened, my W just said flat out that she had feelings for her boss and wanted to leave us for him. End of story. She never explained why or what was wrong with our M. It was just, he is what I want and that's that.

She promised to go to C with me at that time and told me that she didn't tell him about her feelings. That was a huge lie because a month later I found a note that she wrote to him about how he was her soulmate, made her spirit soar, etc. Ugh. Makes me sick just thinking about it.

I think she's still looking for that "soulmate" feeling. And the "being in love" high.

How to do that again is my challenge. I wish the OM had retired while my W was living at home. Then I would have more of a chance to work on her and improve our communication. As it is, her sister pretty much provides her with a place for my W and the kids to live and is even looking at getting a bigger place for them. So she is enabling this behavior. Plus I think for her it's a safe haven. She doesn't have to deal with our R. Running.

[flowmom]

25, your words are very convincing to me!

[25yearsmlc]

Yes they do. I'm going to seriously be doing some of those things to my W.

As for it being an EA, when this happened, my W just said flat out that she had feelings for her boss and wanted to leave us for him. End of story. She never explained why or what was wrong with our M. It was just, he is what I want and that's that.

She promised to go to C with me at that time and told me that she didn't tell him about her feelings. That was a huge lie because a month later I found a note that she wrote to him about how he was her soulmate, made her spirit soar, etc. Ugh. Makes me sick just thinking about it.

I think she's still looking for that "soulmate" feeling. And the "being in love" high.

How to do that again is my challenge. I wish the OM had retired while my W was living at home. Then I would have more of a chance to work on her and improve our communication. As it is, her sister pretty much provides her with a place for my W and the kids to live and is even looking at getting a bigger place for them. So she is enabling this behavior. Plus I think for her it's a safe haven. She doesn't have to deal with our R. Running.

As much as that "enabling" seems to be terrible; it is not. First off, giving her space helps you in some ways. (No, not all ways, but you only have so much control here, so use it where you can and make this as positive as you can!)

With the time apart, rather than day to day contact, it is MUCH easier to see change in the other person. New hair, clothes, behaviors and wondering what you are doing with YOUR free time do matter. Be mysterious when you can.

Plus do you really want your wife to feel "trapped" into making it work with you? NO you don't. She's resent you more as time passed and you'd set a crappy example to your kids. Plus, I found meeting with a L very empowering, b/c it meant that I was CHOOSING to stay m, not out of fear, but out of duty and love and commitment and loyalty, and i like those reasons....food for thought.

j-

[MrBond]

Sigh. You're right about that. I haven't been trying to influence the environment like talking to her sister. Like you said, I want her to come back because she WANTS to come back and not because of some outside pressure.

Today I picked up the kids from her sister's place early in the morning. We hugged and she looked tired. She was very friendly. The kids and I had a blast and stayed out late. She called about 6 times at night to try and say goodnight to them. I eventually called her back and told her about what we did and how much fun we had. I asked her what she did and she just said she went to Costco by herself.

She sounded pretty lonely, but oh well. Her choice. Things are good for me right now. I doubt that she thinks about me as her husband or someone she misses. I think she's just trying to get herself in order.

But I do want her to be healthy emotionally. Despite all that she's done, she's still my W. I picked her up some sweets yesterday and gave them to her when I dropped the kids off. Later that night when I called to say goodnight to the kids, I told her that I bought the sweets because she sounded like something was bothering her at work when I talked to her earlier.

I told her that I've known her for 18 years, and know when something's bothering her, so each time I would always get her something small because she wouldn't open up to me about things. I told her I look forward to the day when I wouldn't have to buy her anything and that all she would do is tell me what was wrong. She thanked me for it.

So right now I'm just showing her that I am here to listen if she has any problems, yet at the same time, GAL and detaching as well as I can from HER issues. Right now my kids are my first priority and I'm blessed to have them.

[MrBond]

Busy day on the boards today.

I sent my W a funny picture I took of our D yesterday this morning.

She writes back. "Cute picture." Then says that since I had asked her to watch our D's this Saturday if I had to work, that they should stay overnight with her at her sister's. I had actually told her I might have to work on Saturday when I first found out about the OM's going away party being then. I wanted to see if she would actually go so I set up the D scenario with her.

I am surprised that she has the nerve to say they should stay overnight with her if I had to work, considering she was going to take my D's by force if necessary just because I said one of them were sick and should just stay put for ONE night.

And on Xmas Eve, even though it was well after midnight, she insisted on me driving them back to her place so they could stay with her since it was her night. But here it is MY time and she says (not asks) that they should stay with her.

I responded back to her that I may not have to work on Saturday after all, but if I didn't have to and if she didn't have any other plans (i.e. the OM's going away party). We could always do something together.

I also told her that I understand how lonely it can be when we don't have the kids, and that she is more than welcome to stop by for dinner or say 'hi' when I have them. So I showed her the road home is still there.

Crazy. She misses the kids like crazy, but won't put a single effort in to getting things right between us.

Should I tell her how her request is contradictory to what she's been demanding of me? I'm thinking to let it slide for now until it comes up again.

[K4D]

Crazy. She misses the kids like crazy, but won't put a single effort in to getting things right between us.

She doesn't want to be with you right now. She wants her kids without consideration to the fact she is only a coparent at this point. It isn't about making things right between the 2 of you right now. It is more about making things right between her and the kids and I am guessing that probably the kids bring her some kind of emotional well being when they are with her.

Logically, you are correct. She isn't logical right now. She is emotional.

Should I tell her how her request is contradictory to what she's been demanding of me? I'm thinking to let it slide for now until it comes up again.

Just being me, I wouldn't address it unless it becomes a pattern. One time here or there, not a big deal. Continually, then it becomes an issue. Just my 2 cents.

Kevin

[MrBond]

Thanks Kevin.

Unlike your W who has been consistent in her actions and words that she wants a new life away from you (or at least that's how it seems), my W hasn't been.

Things will calm down a bit after this week after the OM retires on Saturday. I don't think she's going to the party, but that's up to her.

I told her that if she didn't have plans (I didn't refer to the OM's party) that she is more than welcome to join us for dinner. We'll see what happens.

[MrBond]

Updating my sitch.

So later that night I did confront her about her message and how I thought she was being hypocritical that she would actually say she wanted to have the girls sleep over with her when she wouldn't even let them stay over for one night when they were sick.

I told her that all this time she was extremely selfish and to illustrate my point, I asked her, "What did you threaten to do to me if I didn't let you take the kid when they were sick?" She lowered her voice and said "have you arrested". BINGO!

So then I told her I thought she was extremely insensitive especially based on the fact that the OM came to my working place to get me fired, I stuck up for her and she had the nerve to ask for something else from me. I told her I give and give and give and was sick of her taking. It was a nice vent, but I had already passed the point where I need to be nice to her. If someone's going to call her out on her crap then it might as well be me.

I ended the conversation and that was that. Yesterday when she called to say goodnight to the kids, she actually asked how my day was. That'll last about another day.

Back to GAL.

[MrBond]

So I tell her Thursday night that I'm on half-day furlough on Friday so if she wants to meet up for lunch or dinner, I'm free since she's off. We meet for Friday night dinner and spend some time at the mall with our D's which was pretty fun. She actually initiated a little conversation and I made sure to give her my full attention when she's speaking.

Saturday we were supposed to go to my D's soccer game together, but it was cancelled on account of TSUNAMI! So I just picked up my D's in the morning and brought them back home with me. I mowed the lawn and my oldest D thought it'd be nice to have a barbecue. She asked if W was coming over and I said that was up to her, but she could call her and ask. So she invited my W over and altogether we had a nice time.

As my W got up to leave after dinner and a movie, both my D's started crying asking her to stay. She got a little stern with them and said that she told them she wasn't staying over. I pulled her to the side and said that she was being a little too harsh and she needs to knock it down a bit. She softened a bit then left. She called me later that night to tell me she got home safely and I talked to her briefly about how I didn't understand how every time she leaves, it looks like she's forcing herself to leave. I also mentioned to her that I didn't understand how (originally) she left me for a guy who was her "soulmate" who turned around and pretty much threw her under the bus. I added that she had a house full of people who love her and that she didn't have to be alone. I was debating whether or not to say all that earlier, but I figured, what the heck? At least it would give her something to think about. I didn't really think anything would come out of it.

Sunday night it was a little sad when my D's wanted to see our wedding pictures and when they did, my oldest remarked how she's never seen mommy so happy in a long time. Yep even she picks up on the depression. When my W called later that evening, I asked her what she did and she just said she went to buy a storage containere and that was it. She asked what we did and I pretty much told her we had a blast. Went to the park, made dinner together, etc. She did sound a little sad, but oh well.

I think I get a better reaction when I'm going 'dim' around her. I mentioned to her that I had an event next week Sunday and if she could come. She said she would which again is a positive sign.