I do not feel you are understanding my points so it seems like it will only cause a conflict if we continue.
I understand you love your H and no matter what the outcome is he will always be the father of your children. But love isn't enough when somebody has deep seeded problems that are not addressed and one compensates for the problems the other person has.
There is one phrase that is intolerable to me. And that is the phrase "worn down". I won't listen to it and if I see it in a post I never read that thread again. When you are "worn down" you can deal with it or run. Once you run, handing over money or acting 'decent' to make a separation easier should not be celebrated IMO. Those are the very basics and a husband and father (or wife and mother depending on the situation) is obligated to do more than the mere basics.
It is necessary for ALL of us to be challenged as we rarely can see what others see (based on the info provided) when we are in the thick of our own situation.
You are awfully tough on yourself (and you should be!) but you need to be equally as tough on your H. Just remember, he is the one with the quiet apartment, with FAR LESS childcare responsibility to tend to and not having to go through the trauma the LBS is forced to face. Big deal, so he goes to work each day... most adults do! All his "traumas" had solutions yet he chose not to participate.
Generally speaking when a LBS starts to realize they need to be just as tough on the WAS as they are themselves life gets better for the LBS. You stop caring and nitpicking and searching for clues and making excuses and realize there is NOTHING you can do except work on you and eliminate any "work" towards the WAS until they are ready to participate and show ample and concrete effort. Anything less is meaningless IMO for the marriage, not parenthood.
Any spouse that financially provides, well, what is so special about that? All adults must work and care for themselves and their family. So why is busting his butt to care for the family in a financial sense so special?
All the other ways he should have provided he lapsed on and IMO those are FAR more essential than money. He lapsed on getting help, addressing his sleep issues, sex with you, communication, dealing with life stress. Those are the signs of a true and stable provider. I thought for a LONG time my H was a wonderful provider and from a financial standpoint he was. But there is so much more that needs to be provided and he simply didn't have the goods.
CG, I think I'm understanding what you're writing and I thank you for your thoughts.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Generally speaking when a LBS starts to realize they need to be just as tough on the WAS as they are themselves life gets better for the LBS. You stop caring and nitpicking and searching for clues and making excuses and realize there is NOTHING you can do except work on you and eliminate any "work" towards the WAS until they are ready to participate and show ample and concrete effort.
So what specific actions would get me there (in addition to talking to my IC)? Or is it a process?
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
FM sorry for the hijack but this is more for Cyrena there is a post on the MLC board on J3B thread from KJensen about her H who went thru to acceptance and then went back to replay.
S6: <crying> "I don't know what's wrong with me. I feel sad most days...I often feel sad"
This is so out of character for my little boy, who never talks about his feelings frown .
Yes, it's so difficult to see our children suffer. I think it's a good thing that S6 is expressing his feelings, instead of holding them in. And, of course he feels sad. I worried far more about my S13 when he was acting and saying that everything was just fine, when I knew it wasn't.
Reading your thread, your compassion for your H and children shines trough. It will save your children.
M:42|W:40|D:17|S:13|Bomb:10/23/09 Awoken's Current Thread
The only specific actions that you can take are for you.
Yes, this is a process and I understand (my gosh, do I ever!) that while the process is basically the same it is also individualized. For example.. I do not fully understand how difficult this must be to endure with two children because that is not my experience. I feel safe to say you can't fully understand what it is like to endure a divorce when a torrid affair is taking place and having to deal with very serious personal health issues. We certainly can empathize with one another and do our very best to see things through each other's eyes but other than that it can be difficult.
And this is my issue, I know, but I find it almost disturbing (in the best possible way if that makes sense) to read so many horrible situations and *really* understand how much you (general you, not you per say) want to change something but chances are it just won't happen as you want or hope.
It is VERY important to have personal and R goals. I guess I just find it upsetting (again, my issue) to see so many amazing people put so much stock in "things" that really add up to a whole lot of nothing at the end of the day.
All LBS need to find their own process but I suppose I just wish ALL LBS would stop including their WAS in that process as most of the time the WAS simply is not interested. I do not doubt at some point your H was a terrific husband and father but right now, despite your best (and amazing) efforts to find *some* good that person no longer exists.
It is VERY hard to remove the WAS from the equation. I think it is human nature to want to see the very best in people we loved/love and that is a GOOD thing to a degree but it also is a way to shield us from a painful reality.
And maybe this is plain silly of me and despite popular opinion I do NOT have a heart of stone ( ) but I really do see so many people putting the same stock in their WAS as I did. If things don't work out then you (again, general you) have really set yourself back just like I did!
It's a tough call and VERY easy for me to say "well, they just won't listen" but it's not that simple. I know that because I didn't listen! And maybe "listen" is not the right word.
While I am not sure how to articulate this without sounding nuts (and we may be past that point now, lol!) I suppose I feel the urge to protect EVERYBODY from all *this*.
This is a process but it is your process and trying to engage or include your WAS is pointless until he comes to you and says he is "all in". I do agree with Awoken that you are very compassionate (I was too) and really sometimes you have to pull back on the compassion for the WAS as it leaves them much too comfortable.
NONE OF THIS IS EASY. I must admit that Monday when My H texted me on my birthday my mind went to the "wicked place" when I realized he texted me during his lunch break instead of before work. Why didn't he text me before work? 'Cause I guess it is kind of hard to text your WIFE when you are waking up with your mistress. After two years *I* should know better than to allow my mind to go there. So yes, it is a process that is very ongoing and we ALL need to get through it on our own and not make the WAS a factor when they don't want to be because one or two years down the line you realize how much time you invested in that and how much time you didn't invest in you.
I guess (and again, this is my issue) I have a big problem when people are praised when they do things they are supposed to be doing.
And this is my issue, I know, but I find it almost disturbing (in the best possible way if that makes sense) to read so many horrible situations and *really* understand how much you (general you, not you per say) want to change something but chances are it just won't happen as you want or hope.
But MWD says we must hold on to hope if we want to save our marriage. And we are supposed to be setting goals, putting strategies in place and observing results to see if the WAS responds in any way.... SO I get so confused when people on here tell us to not think about the WAS or care about them!
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
Also, what is wrong with getting our hopes up and getting heartbroken or disappointed? YOu know? It hurts but we move on. So the risk of having hope is being disappointed. All of us know that....
I think as long as the LBS "prepare for the worst" we should be free to hope! Prepare meaning we have a back up plan in place and not be oblivious to the fact that we might fail in our quest.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
) but I really do see so many people putting the same stock in their WAS as I did. If things don't work out then you (again, general you) have really set yourself back just like I did!