I'm going to back track a bit---first, OP - if I sound frustrated, it's not at you (hopefully you know that)----I do appreciate the advice.
Something on my mind recently-----when H and I had trouble (minor issues) in the past, I treated him with silence (which he HATED---but usually got his attention). It is NOW just occurring to me that all of my attempts to go dark and NC have probably just seemed like more of the same to him......and I've wondered if that was all wrong for me.......just a thought.
Me 45 M 25 yrs; T 31 yrs;bomb 8/15/06; moves out 7/18/08 D 18, D 14, S 12
OP - LOL -- if only I did KNOW what was the best thing to do....I wouldn't be here!!! Thanks. I can't "alt" at work (probably shouldn't db...), but I get updates on my cell.
Me 45 M 25 yrs; T 31 yrs;bomb 8/15/06; moves out 7/18/08 D 18, D 14, S 12
So how will you change that? I think getting your confidence up would be a great palce to start. What are things that YOU want to change in your life for yourself, not him?
Hopefully you won't take this wrong, but I think gaining some more confidence driving in the snow might be a good place to start. I am not talking about long distances but just getting more comfortable.
I have my number posted on the alt if you want to chat.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I do think some specific instances of his anger are worsened by our lack of communication, and with kids and finances involved, I can't go completely NC. Would it do ME some good, definitely. But----it would also do me some good to not have to deal with him at ALL right now.
Not necessarily, you give yourself too much credit for his anger; you're still blaming yourself...STOP!! You don't "cause" people to have a reactions to you, even in MLC, they CHOOSE their reactions.
The anger in MLC is something that NO ONE causes; as it is contained within THEM. That's what makes it the hardest to understand..it's not 'caused' by anything external, but internal..within themselves
You could do everything right..and he would STILL be angry.
I gather from your posts that you are somewhat afraid of him and the anger he projects...get past that fear, detaching and distancing yourself from his drama...you're having to deal with him in the situations you mention..but you're allowing his anger to affect you...and it shouldn't.
What's the worst thing you think he can do to you?
If he sees your fear, and I guarantee you he does, he plays on that as they get some sort of sick glee out of seeing fear in our eyes. And he seems to be even angrier...but that is NOT your fault; and you never caused what's happening in him.
I showed fear one time, and my husband got such a kick out of it, I was determined NOT to ever let him see me shake in fear again. It made me ANGRY that he was laughing up his sleeve, and staying angry to keep me afraid; that was not only mean, but it was ABUSIVE. My point is, some of it they ARE aware of, some is subconscious workings..and they don't really know what they are doing. It was HARD for me to get past that....I was terrified of the look in his eyes, fearing he'd turn violent on me...but he never did...that was MY worst fear that never came to pass.
Courage is born out of fear, it doesn't mean there's NO fear..you step in spite of the fear...gaining confidence as you step forward shaking in your boots.
I remember shaking in mine more than once; at least until I figured out there was nothing to fear, but the fear itself.
I kept picking up that you were afraid, and your fear of him is growing as time passes; and please don't think I am getting onto you, you're not a child.
If you back off in fear, you'll never interact in the way you'll have to when and if it comes time to bring things back together.
If you decide to practice NC for a time, let it also be a time when you get over what you're afraid of facing those fears, and seeing clearly how they might connect to him.
If I'm off-base, let me know; I'm human, too.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Something on my mind recently-----when H and I had trouble (minor issues) in the past, I treated him with silence (which he HATED---but usually got his attention). It is NOW just occurring to me that all of my attempts to go dark and NC have probably just seemed like more of the same to him......and I've wondered if that was all wrong for me.......just a thought.
That was me, too, Pre-MLC.
But MLC changes things; and he is not thinking of what's contained in your joint past; in fact his WHOLE thinking process has changed for now. He's not remembering the recent marital past right now, anyway...he's remembering a time long before; where you were not in his life...and you're no more than a total stranger to him. That's why he looks at you as if he doesn't know you, and resents your "intrustions" in his life...you know where you are supposed to be, but he doesn't recognize you at all. I've actually SEEN this happen..and I'll wager you have too.
You're trying to figure out how to make things easier on not just you, but him too...and it's not working..so you're still analyzing for a way. Can't do that for long...you'll find yourself running in circles...been there, done that.
You're still blaming yourself for what he does in reaction to you, but that's NOT true...this has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him. Once you get the above statement, some things should become more clear to you. And you will, as you continue to ask questions...that's how you get answers.
You also have to remember where he's at in relation to where you are at...you're sane, he's insane.
And that is SO hard to get your head around.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Thanks Kat - I do WAY better in the snow than I used to. I need new tires or 4WD----I live on a very hilly, very narrow rural highway----so, yes, I am chicken, but somewhat justified---no one drives on it without 4WD when it's bad.
I am not a "self confident" person. I am an introvert, I know that and with everything else going on, this has been very hard on ME and what I think of ME. I am working on that and have made progress, but know I have more to go. I post about what I'm doing for me (and solicit ideas for that) on my other thread.
HB - I don't know that I'm afraid of my H, just afraid of doing the wrong thing, or being responsible for pushing him to the point of D----because for me, I don't see him ever coming back to me if that happens. I fear his anger, because it is so NOT him---and it scares me to think this is who he has become. It is so hard to see, and so hard to feel---coming from the man I've loved for 30 years, and who I BELIEVED with all my heart would be there for me forever. This is the man that D13 recently reminded me saves turtles that are crossing the road (and believe me it took all I had to not say---yeah, a turtle, but HELLO!!!). The man that I believe even today would cross a raging river to save a stranger (he did save a stranger from a burning car and has a list 100 miles long of things he has done for people out of the kindness of his heart)----but I don't know that he would do that for ME today. AND it hurts. It hurts, because I still love him.
I know, you will say that it doesn't matter what I do/say that this is all on him----and part of me believes that, but then there's another part of me----the part of me that's the first to admit to the mistakes I made in the M----that has to believe that I should share the blame and have the responsibility to fix this. However, I know I can't do it on my own----and H has actually said "I (meaning him) don't have what it takes to fix this," and "I don't want to fix this."
Whatever it is that my H is going through, in his eyes, is rooted in our marriage. It is impossible for me to not believe that I should shoulder part of the blame. I guess one more huge character flaw that I have.
I honestly don't know what he sees when he sees me or my reactions. He doesn't appear to give much attention to me any more----unless he's flashing his look of anger. I do, however try my very best to only appear positive around him. I save my neediness for "here."
For now, I do accept, and fully believe that there is only ONE thing I can change in life, and that's me-----and I am committed to make a better me for ME, because this has made me learn that I'm the only one that I can count on to be there forever----and the only one that I need to be happy with in the end.
Me 45 M 25 yrs; T 31 yrs;bomb 8/15/06; moves out 7/18/08 D 18, D 14, S 12
You're trying to figure out how to make things easier on not just you, but him too...and it's not working..so you're still analyzing for a way. Can't do that for long...you'll find yourself running in circles...been there, done that.
You're still blaming yourself for what he does in reaction to you...you're sane, he's insane.
And that is SO hard to get your head around.
Yes, I am. And I am SO tired of circles. Yes, I am still blaming myself---and I do BELIEVE that he's insane----and blame myself for having a role in that too.
Am I just hopeless, or what????
Me 45 M 25 yrs; T 31 yrs;bomb 8/15/06; moves out 7/18/08 D 18, D 14, S 12
You are NEVER hopeless....I can see what I used to be in you; but where you are an introvert, I'm an extrovert.
I'm glad your feelings weren't hurt by what I was saying.
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HB - I don't know that I'm afraid of my H, just afraid of doing the wrong thing, or being responsible for pushing him to the point of D----because for me, I don't see him ever coming back to me if that happens. I fear his anger, because it is so NOT him---and it scares me to think this is who he has become. It is so hard to see, and so hard to feel---coming from the man I've loved for 30 years, and who I BELIEVED with all my heart would be there for me forever. This is the man that D13 recently reminded me saves turtles that are crossing the road (and believe me it took all I had to not say---yeah, a turtle, but HELLO!!!). The man that I believe even today would cross a raging river to save a stranger (he did save a stranger from a burning car and has a list 100 miles long of things he has done for people out of the kindness of his heart)----but I don't know that he would do that for ME today. AND it hurts. It hurts, because I still love him
I can understand what you're saying VERY well...I can guarantee you when mine was there, he wouldn't have peed on me if I'd been on fire(stupid analogy but fitting).
I had to face these things one by one, and when you love, it hurts...but love is a choice..and reality has to be faced...and in the end it's you that makes the choices that govern your life.
Bear in mind that quite a few people do all the 'right' things and say the 'right' things...and their marriage STILL goes bottom side up..doesn't mean they did something wrong...it simply meant their spouse didn't choose to continue with them.
Does that make anyone a failure? NO!
On the other hand, however your fear is rooted, it needs to be worked through; as you don't have anything to lose by losing that. But the fear is definitely there, and must be come to terms with.
When we do things to people it has everything to do with us and nothing to do with the person we did it to. And when the MLC'er does things to us, it has everything to do with them and nothing to do with us.
That's the MLC Monster Mash....it's THEM against US, and it's a sane/insane race to the finish line, and the prize, such as it, is unknown until the race is finished...if it ever does finish..that's the chance you take when you choose to wait.
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I know, you will say that it doesn't matter what I do/say that this is all on him----and part of me believes that, but then there's another part of me----the part of me that's the first to admit to the mistakes I made in the M----that has to believe that I should share the blame and have the responsibility to fix this. However, I know I can't do it on my own----and H has actually said "I (meaning him) don't have what it takes to fix this," and "I don't want to fix this."
This is the part of YOUR journey to wholeness, as you're looking at what you did to contribute, and fix what's within YOU that needs fixing. That's actually SEPARATE from what he's facing. I'm not saying you didn't have your part in the breakdown in the marriage; I'm just saying he's NOT looking at that right now...and you think he is.
If you could communicate with him at this moment, you might be surprised at what he would say if he could talk about it....and it would have NOTHING to do with your marriage or even your life together.
I promise you; he's at a time and place that existed BEFORE he met you...how I know that, I don't know..but I'm certain of that. He's not talking about anything, and he's not going to. When you didn't understand and had pushed him, he told you that stuff to get you off his back, and to justify his behavior.
He's talked so much crazy stuff; you've had a hard time keeping with him...so, continue to back off, work on yourself...like you say, save the needy for the board..vent when you need to...and I see that you do this, already.
Hang in there, keep learning about yourself, and you're doing fine.. You just have a need to understand..and we all have that going on within all of us.
Much love, HB
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
ThisCan'tBTheEnd please know that there are men out there that feel just like you do . Everything your are saying sounds like what I am going through with my EW.
It's so true that they don't even think about us and/or our marriage. That is how it is with my EW. Leaves me feeling like just a sperm donor.
I just try to focus on my kids and give them the best I can.
When I leave my EW alone she comes back to me with an email in a day and is all warm and fuzzy. Then I am warm and fuzzy back and she just goes cold. It's exhausting. In 2 years we have not gone more that one day without contact with each other !!
Me/W: 46/36 D7.6/S6 T/M: 7.5/6.5 Bomb 12/05/07 D final: 03/03/09
HB - thank you. My tears for the day. You really touched me with this one.
One of my biggest obstacles or problems (??) is that my H has not also abandoned the kids----he stays connected to them with baseball/softball and for the most part "gets them" on his days (although the girls often end up with me for part of his weekends). I know I should be happy that he hasn't disconnected from them as well----but I haven't read about many MLC dads that do this.....so I often find myself wondering if I'm the insane one and that this isn't MLC.....even though I KNOW there is something wrong. I do think (of course being in MY position I would think this), that it would be easier for ME if he wasn't so involved with them....mostly because he seems to find problems with so many things that I do that involve them, and we are now on completely different pages as far as HOW involved with ball they should be---and I've let him be in charge of that..........but that's the way it is.
Whit - I've read A LOT of threads, different sitches----a lot of the same thing, and it seems that man or woman going through MLC alot of the stories are the same.
Me 45 M 25 yrs; T 31 yrs;bomb 8/15/06; moves out 7/18/08 D 18, D 14, S 12
