Looking for Advice

[gutwrenching]

Update from last night:

Last night I got basically the I don't like your changes speech. W needed to do some work and asked me what I was going to do. I replied I am going to start on a project to get the house ready to sell. This made her upset...she thought I was trying to make her feel guilty about not helping. She then asked me why I don't just go in the room and spend a bunch of time on the computer like I used too. I simply told her that I still use the computer but am not consumed by it. I said you always used to complain that I spent too much time on it, now not enough?

W proceeds to tell me that she told me to prepare for the worst and then I start spending more time with the kids, want to go to church again, and do more around the house. She was implying that I was playing games...so I calmly asked her that...are you thinking I am playing games. She said no, that's not the right word but it appears to her that the things I have changed were done to show her what see will be missing if she leaves.

I re-iterated as I have many times before that I have really enjoyed all the time I have been able to spend with the kids. W replied that if there is one good thing that comes from all of this it is that I realized how much they need me and that they are much happier now. I only added that they are even happier here recently now that W has also been spending time with them. W replied "I know."

I also re-iterated that I don't need W to go to church with us, and that she knows the reasons I really want to go since I openly shared that with her, and that I will take them with me. W replied no you won't, I will go for the girls...struck a nerve there...basically said there is no way that this will be something I get to do with just them...jealousy I would guess.

I ignored the houswork comment, nothing much has changed there, it is just how she is re-writing history on me not doing much around the house which is complete BS.

She also said she needs more space and that is why she goes to the basement. I told sure seems like you are hiding something when you do that...and her reply was she was hiding from me to decompress. In the past I would sit on the computer for a couple of hours in the evening and that would be her decompress time but now that I don't do that, she needs time alone. She said we work out together in the morning, and at lunch, and I am normally home when she gets home...so not enough space. I reminded her that the lunch gym routine could easily be avoided, but she had said she liked doing it that way...and again, she said no she didn't want to change that.

I did validate that I understand how she could perceive things that way, but that was not the case. I told her I was not going to be consumed by the computer and I should not be viewed as a bad guy because I am doing things that make me happier. Lastly I said something about the stress that she is dealing with and let her know that I too have to deal with stress. She said stress of what: so I replied, work, upcoming move, getting house ready to sell, probably going to lose money on house, youngest D really going through one of those stages. I did not say anything about R/M, I think that is what she was expecting and wanting to me to say...but I didn't go there.

So, more space I can give her. I did last night and went to sleep before she came up from basement. It was midnight when she went to bed. This morning she tells me that she lost track of time (I didn't ask at all, didn't care really) and has to be better about that because now she is tired. I didn't respond.

[gutwrenching]

Detach is something I still have trouble with. I make progress and then slip back. Overall, I am not yet detached, that I know. Loosen the reigns is great advice.


I don't understand why you didn't like me justifying W's trip to her dad's alone. I sure as heck wouldn't want to go...I am miserable when there, and so are the girls. I'm listenting, just don't get it.

[CityGirl]

It has nothing to do with me "liking" something. It is simply operating in reality. All of those reasons you stated (her parents not being welcoming to the children, the house not being equipped to handle children) are valid. However your W's life is a bit different now, no? You will need to start remembering that on a day to day basis. This isn't about you or your girls (the trip I mean) it is about your W and your W has not really offered anything of value to you or the marriage for a very long time. When people stop offering themselves to their spouses and stop adding value to the family unit any and all bets are off.

Take it a step further. Your W knows how you feel about visiting her parents so it is a very easy "front" as she knows you won't make too much noise about it since you don't like it. Did your W have the courtesy or respect to sit down with you, talk about dates, childcare and so on BEFORE she starting planning this trip in her head or did she let you know after the fact?

You are basing things on what used to exist. Your W adding value to the family unit and the marriage. She has chosen not to do those things anymore so all her actions (IMO) have motivation and the motivation *may* have changed from previous years.

She knows you don't want to go so it is very easy for her to go.

I know you are not detached! I kinda figured that when you made post after post about if you should go out for ice cream! LOL! It takes a while. You do seem to have a need to control the situation and like I said before... I think it would be good for you to leave your work persona at work and focus on a more relaxed atmosphere at home for YOU.

Just remember, your W has CHOSEN to stop adding value to the marriage and the family. Small bits of "good" aren't good enough. Don't push her but let YOUR actions speak for themselves.

[sandi2]

Lastly I said something about the stress that she is dealing with and let her know that I too have to deal with stress. She said stress of what: so I replied, work, upcoming move, getting house ready to sell, probably going to lose money on house, youngest D really going through one of those stages. I did not say anything about R/M, I think that is what she was expecting and wanting to me to say...but I didn't go there.

Good for you. Don't allow her to use you for her excuse or make you the bad guy. Her problems are brought about mostly by her choices and she needs to be a big girl and act like an adult and handle it. How do you live with that day in & day out? If my H used his voice of authority (like he knows how to do) and let me know that he would not tollerate my b!tchy mood......I promise you that I'd get out of it real quickly. Women do what their H's allow them to get away with. You allow her to act like a bi!ch and wipe her feet on you. You have seen that when you call her ahnd on it, she stopes. Looks like you will have to call her hand every day before she starts acting like a lady to her H.

Let me tell you something....when you ignore, that is allowing her to get away with disrespecting you. Is that what you want to do?

So, more space I can give her. I did last night and went to sleep before she came up from basement. It was midnight when she went to bed. This morning she tells me that she lost track of time (I didn't ask at all, didn't care really) and has to be better about that because now she is tired. I didn't respond.

And, so she will continue to do that, b/c she can.

[gutwrenching]

Sandi - wow, didn't see it that way on ignoring her comments about losing track of time...thanks for the wakeup. I looked it at as you all have advised me on not being controlling, but you are right, it is disrespecting me and she knows it. Absolutely, that is not how I want it to be. That one is easy to change. Thank you, thank you.

And Sandi, thanks mainly to your blunt approach over and over, I have been calling her out a ton on many things. And you are right, 9 times out of 10 it works. I have not always used the firm voice, maybe I should, but I guess I have reserved that for the open/blatant disrespect/treatment, but maybe I need to do it more for a little of everything.

[CityGirl]

See, your post above (the conversation last night) really says to me (again, my opinion is just that) how terribly manipulative your W is.

She stated she needs time alone to decompress. In a marriage sometimes you have to consider the needs of others as well as your own and we ALL know that is a tricky balance. HOWEVER she made it clear she is unwilling to consider YOUR needs by stating what she will and will not change (having lunch, working out). She wants to decompress on her terms? Why is that you think?

You have offered her *something* that will give her space (no lunches, no gym time) yet she dictated to you those things must remain. She wants what she wants on her terms and is unwilling to change things. Logic would say there is a reason for that. I bet part of the reason is a control issue but I do think there is more.

Let her sit in the basement all night. Also let her know that you no longer care to be disturbed once she decides to come to bed. In the future if she is not done "decompressing" by the time you go to bed it is best for her to sleep elsewhere so you are not disturbed.

[gutwrenching]

CG,

Did your W have the courtesy or respect to sit down with you, talk about dates, childcare and so on BEFORE she starting planning this trip in her head or did she let you know after the fact?

Actually she did. I even had the chance to probably veto the trip, but I didn't. Maybe because she played me and pulled the right strings, but at the time in my mind it was about not trying to control her.

I think it would be good for you to leave your work persona at work and focus on a more relaxed atmosphere at home for YOU.

This is/was great advice and I have been trying hard. You really opened my eyes the last time you visited by thread with this advice. I truly appreciate it. I haven't gotten there yet, but have made significant strides.

Don't push her but let YOUR actions speak for themselves.

Could you expand a little, explain a little more please? Thanks

[Lost Rabbit]

Good advice from folks GW.. I know you want to give W space and I can understand her saying Im stuck with you all day I need space away to get my head together and now youre not on the computer I go in the basement.. BUT you are getting better at calling her out on stuff, next time she heads off for space howabout setting a time on it, "ok hun have an hours peace and quiet and I'll come give you a shout at say pm when Ive put the kettle on" it might not be as full on as the others might like but it wont start a fight whilst you test the ground the first time.. If it works you can set a more forceful boundary!

[CityGirl]

Well, I think your actions need to become more detached (and you will have to fake this for a while but eventually it will be your reality.

You let your W get away with an awful lot. I understand your dilemma as you want to appear less controlling. But IMO there is a big difference between controlling and allowing an adult get away with things that are not appropriate.

I understand this is easier for me to say than to follow but you MUST stop searching for all these little clues. I realize this forum is a place to journal and such but if you give your W any indication that you are searching so deeply for *anything* she will continue this crap.

The moment she said she feels guilty about the house and her lack of contribution you should have said STOP.. guilt is your issue and not mine. Stop projecting your guilt on me and walked away and most important engage in no further discussion about it.

I understand how hard it is to leave a work persona at work. My sister works in a lab in a large county hospital and prior she was a nurse. Her lab is very stringent with hourly hazardous checks. When you are dealing with specimens, tissue, bone, blood, urine and so on that contain who knows what you need to be. My sister is almost obsessive when cleaning her house. If she sees a crumb of bread on the counter she can spout off 10 bacterias that bread can grow if it remains and all the horrid things that can happen if you ate that crumb of bread with bacteria. Instead of fretting about it why not just throw the crumb out? Honestly, its rather annoying and takes a HUGE chunk of her time to keep her house "lab worthy".

It sounds silly but it can really take over your life. Your posts tell me you are very commanding at work, very structured, not flexible and every action is orchestrated. And that is a GOOD way to be at work! At home though you need to create a sanctuary so you can work on relaxing. And part of that sanctuary should include not putting so much emphasis on what your W does or says.

[sandi2]

If she's down in the basement, does that mean you have the children to take care of, getting them ready for bed, etc.? I suppose cleaning up the kitchen after you cook dinner, doing the laundry, etc., is your job, as well? If this is what's happening, then it should have been stopped a long time ago. Working women/mothers everywhere could say they needed down time, but are not allowed that privilge. To make matters worse....she is making you feel guilty b/c she's using "you" as her excuse. That's got to hurt. The two of you are just in the same building, you aren't in the same office all the time where you are looking at each other all day, right? I would question a woman who thinks seeing her H before work a few minutes and during the lunch break as being too much time together and needing "space".


Maybe I am being too hard on her, but she is beginning to sound like a spoiled brat. She needs to take on responsibilities of being a mother in addition to career woman.....b/c that was her choice, was it not? Doesn't really matter if it was a choice or not b/c that's what her life should demand from her. If she has a job or if she's a parent.....she's got to do the work.