It's true - the best you can say is, badgering doesn't work. Of course you want to know all those things. Of course we all panic about stuff like that. But pushing does not get it out of them, it makes them more defensive. I actually applaud you for eventually getting underneath her attitude to get her to say what it was really about though. That is tough but the real issue was eventually on the table.
Sandi or Greek- if you are out there or someone can find you, would really like your take on a couple of things, from the WAS perspective.
Despite a DB slipup with badgering, I was told an interesting piece of data last night (assuming it is true). W tells me that we are really good at being friends, at being very good friends, at talking about work, the kids, and day to day stuff. But, W then says we don't have deep converstations and that she doesn't have deep conversations with anyone. When I asked her to define deep, she used words like emotions, feelings and future plans. She also tells me we don't have those deep conversations because she feels no connection with me.
So, is it time to try to have a little deeper conversation or is it time to back off and give more space (I do know well enough to stay far away from the future plans)? We have been getting along extremely well, a couple bricks from the wall came down, I think some but probably not all went back up yesterday. One idea is to talk to W about how hard it is for me to play the happy couple in all these social events, especially now that I learn she is scheduling another one for us...
Second question - was this just a pullback you think - things started going better, we are really getting along well, the massages, talk of another ski trip and then W realizes wait a second I need to pull back?
Update from today. There's nothing like exercise to help alleviate stress/tension. W and I went to gym together at lunch, at the beginning it was cold/tense between us, after a 1.5 mile run and an intense ab workout, back to being friendly. When we left, W asks if I need anything from the store - and she just happens to come back from trip to store at same time I'm returning and she walks up to me and hands me some food items that she found there that she knows I like and are hard to find. Friday night is movie/pizza night at the GW house and she tells me about the snacks she bought for the kids, and what she got for us for after they go to bed. So slowly getting back on the good friend track, thus why I think maybe not every brick was regenerated last night.
Last bit - I'm a little suprised no one has said something about the fact the internet wasn't working made her mad because she planned on contacting OM. I thought about that, but if W is still in contact with OM or OM2, it is deep undercover. I don't think she'd make that big of a deal of the internet if she was trying to go deep undercover. She knows darn well I might have told her I need to change some settings on her computer to get it to work right.
M39 W41 Two children WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09 Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10 No longer piecing...Nov 10 Separation Jan 11 EA ends again Feb 11 Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
Weekend update: Wall was rebuilding on Saturday but not at all on Sunday. Hopefully less bricks went back up than had come down over the past week.
Met with relator to talk about getting house on market for upcoming move this summer. We are going to lose money, hopefully not a ton, but I don't see us breaking even.
W and I discussing getting away for a couple of days or not over kids Spring Break. I want too...becaues it is "doing what works" and getting away works. W doesn't cause she thinks we have too much to do to get the house ready to sell. So I'm tyring to find a solution that we can agree too...
Also a slight argument Fri as W changed password to iphone account. She claims, as she always has, she wants/needs to do something financial/bills on her own after relying on me 100% for 14+ years. She agreed to show me the details/usage whenever I request it. Thinking about setting up a schdule, either formally or informally.
Final thing is it really appears to me the fog is lifting. My biggest basis for this is her interaction with the kids. She is being a good mother again, and it has been that way for about 2 solid weeks now. When she is home, she is "there" vice where it seemed she "was not with us" prior to that. Her wall is still up strong and I have recently posted the I have no feelings for you...but the fog seems to be about gone.
I have a great PMA going today. Just in good mood. Got lots of sleep this weekend, I had a great workout this morning...just very upbeat today
M39 W41 Two children WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09 Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10 No longer piecing...Nov 10 Separation Jan 11 EA ends again Feb 11 Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
She claims, as she always has, she wants/needs to do something financial/bills on her own after relying on me 100% for 14+ years. She agreed to show me the details/usage whenever I request it. Thinking about setting up a schdule, either formally or informally.
But that does not merit a secret password from one's S. The only reason a W would have a secret pw was if she was keeping secrets. She can pay for her phone all by herself, but why a secret pw? That's crzy. And if you are refering to a formal/informal schedule about checking the phone.....that would be simply useless. If she is hiding something, you would need to wait until her guard is down then radomly check the phone when she's in the shower. I would be more ready to think the EA was over except for her "privacy" issues with the computer and phone......and her extreme mood changes. If the moods were more depressed, I would think she was going through withdrawal.....but the angry.....IDK. But I hope you are right and the fog is lifting.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Going on trip ALONE to see her father... changing passwords.... staying up late on computer.... mood swings... telling you that there is no deep conversation between you.... going to the store after workout....... headaches on vacation......
All red flags of a continued affair.
As far as going to her dads.. This is a lie to cover for a rendevous with OM. The WS ALWAYS does these things. The OM may pay for the room which would mean that the bill wouldn't show up to you. Don't be naive here. They ARE planning a rendevous. She is already covering her tracks and observing you to see if you fall for this nonsense....
You are WANTING the affair to be over is causing you to tell yourself it IS over.. I disagree with your view. Going on trips to "family" and having a secret password to your phone is a dead give a way.. A person doesn't need a secret password from their spouse unless they are hiding something...
I understand the "we are very good as friends" line is often typical WAS script but for a while now, I have felt in your case it is almost a form of brainwashing.
Your W is a smart lady. IMO (which I realize means jack) she harps on the " we are GREAT at being friends" angle as she knows you want more. She knows you have spent nearly every waking minute looking for clues on how to create more than "just friends". She knows that quest keeps you very occupied so she continues to hammer that point home so you stay busy.
Again IMO (again, means jack) EA's are FAR more dangerous than PA's. IN an EA you can create an image of absolute perfection. In a PA eventually "real stuff" comes into play as nobody can hide from life day in and day out. But an EA allows for ongoing fantasy that a PA doesn't. If I had to bet I would say yes, your W is heavily invested in an EA and has been for some time. She is just getting smarter about it and has become very skilled at keeping you busy.
Her going back to "good mothering" could be out of guilt, desire, her thinking she is covering her tracks better or once again, to simply throw you off the EA track.
I know this opinion is not totally popular but I am of the school of thought that affairs do NOT end as quickly as most people would like to think. My H is still in his affair two years later and the R is riddled with problems, the R is causing him work issues (they work together) and he lost 80% of his assets and there are no signs of the affair stopping.
I also feel when the WAS who is invested in an affair of some kind starts to "throw bones" the LBS often puts too much stock in bricks coming down or the "fog" ending. Not so. It means they are getting smarter (the WAS that is) and once again, keeping you busy with silly little gestures of hope.
IMO the best thing you can do for you is to go dark, *really* detach this time, end your search for the clues you seek and let her be.
ALL - Thanks for the input, lots for me to chew over today. Tired today, three phone calls, work related for me in between 2 and 3 in the morning last night.
I am not at all certain the EA is over. Never have been; do I want it to be over, yes...but if I had to bet, all along I'd bet it is not over. There are signs that it is and as you all pointed signs that it is not.
Trip to her father's alone - this is not as uncommon as it appears. Her father/step mother are very, very difficult for us to visit as a family. Step mother is handicapped and nothing about their place or visiting them is kid friendly. Neither of them ever really want anything to do with the kids. This would be the third time she visited her dad alone. HOWEVER, radar is fully up that this could be rendezvous. If so, she'll get caught. I can always call her dad's house vice her cell to talk to her. And the hotel she will be at one night...see if she is really there. And I can call OM's work and see if he is around those days or took time off.
Changing the password is a big red flag. I am pretty sure I can get the password changed again, but after seeing Sandi's post, maybe I do just lie low and wait
M39 W41 Two children WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09 Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10 No longer piecing...Nov 10 Separation Jan 11 EA ends again Feb 11 Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
I understand you *want* an EA to NOT exist but chances are it does exist on some level. It is not a matter of being certain or not unless you plan to full out bust it or pursue it from a legal standpoint. If you see "red flags" you need to proceed as if it does exist 110%. That stance is for YOU and YOU only. You may want to be detached and there might be days where you feel more detached than others but overall you seem to be rather attached.
You getting the password changed on the phone would be pointless. It keeps you and your W locked in a power struggle, she will hold back for a few days then find a new way to conduct whatever it is she is conducting.
Control seems to be a big issue for you. You cannot control your W so changing the password would do no good. Making excuses or justifications as to why your W might be doing what she is doing is not good for YOU. You just justified why she goes to her father's alone. Well, so what? Things are different now and she set the tone for "being different" so any old facts really are not relevant to the NEW situation.
Changing passwords *is* a big red flag but it seems to be a tangible one for you. In reading your posts there are tons of red flags just not as blatant as a password change. It seems though when they are pointed out to you, you are able to give a reason as to why they *may* be happening. Maybe in the past your reasoning was valid but things are different now.
My H basically cut off ALL ties with his aunt (who at one time he was very close to for a good part of his life) because she had an affair, dumped her husband and married a real loser. I have been in my H's life for 13 years and his stance against his aunt remained strong. Very strong. It was a very different game though when my H began his affair. *Now* the game was different. For a long time I was stunned that somebody who was so against cheating, who was perfectly clear from Day 1 that any sort of cheating was a "deal breaker" for him was now heavily invested in an affair.
It's tough, no doubt about it. Leave her alone totally and move forward with your life. Note, I did not say "move on" but move forward. It will take some time but eventually she will see you are not longer hunting for clues to make things work and you have stopped accommodating her and then maybe things will be different (or maybe not). The more you dote on her the more underground she has to go. Loosen the reigns and mistakes will happen. Then you can make a choice about your future.
