Tbone(head), I'm sorry if this comes off as offensive..ok, maybe I'm not. But look dude I tried to phrase it in a nicer way earlier. We HD women do NOT need lessons on how to attract a man. I know that I'm a hot looking cat and I know how to shake the damn string!
The fact that my husband doesn't always notice the moving string is not my problem or my fault. I don't go anywhere that I do not attract male attention. Like LL, I am a young attractive stay at home mother.
The answer CANNOT be to move on and find another cat who likes moving string. In some cases, yes. In all of them? Every person out there whose marriage has libido discrepencies should up and leave and move on to greener pastures? What kind of advice is that for LL?
I don't know what the answer is for her, either, but I hope that we can all help her brainstorm a new strategy.
It just pisses me off that the "typical" male response to this particular problem is one of two things: To coach the woman on how to get a man's attention (unnecessary and condescending) or tell her to leave and find a real man.
I just find this advice to be non-effective. Sortof like how people will tell a man to do housework in order to get his wife sexually attracted to him--that doesn't work either, imo.
Maybe these H are not idiots but anyone who purposefully makes there life hell my not doing something that they are fully capable of is not of the highest intellect. "When I slam my head into the wall it hurts but I think I will do it again and again and again". "When I hurt my W she is unhappy and that usually makes me unhappy". So why do they keep hitting their head if they are so smart. When I was here two years ago I kept hearing about forgiveness being a choice. In my eyes so is passion, desire, and caring. These men are choosing for their M to be like this. That is screwed up and who would want to be around them. Am I being hard on them? You bet ya! My W is as stubborn, defensive, and non-talkative as most H but she gave up some pretty "hard" positions on some issues to allow our M to work. Why did she do it? She wanted to, plain and simple. She "chose" to improve what was lacking in our M as did I.
I know it sounds like I am really pushing ultimatums but at some point the suffering has to stop. Is it savable if you remain patient? Maybe, depends on who you ask. Dr. Laura says no. She says SSM are doomed. I really hate seeing people hurt and these sitchs just seem to agonize on and on. If you are strong enough to survive "status quo", good for you. I mean that. Personnally, I am a demanding guy who wants a lot out of life and I don't settle. Sorry, but patience is one virtue I am truly lacking in. Good luck to all.
I think Annette hit the nail right on the head I see these looks from my W all the time. She doesn't know what to do are even what is the problem or really is not wanting to try very hard.
When given the "ultimatum" to either work this out or we end the M, HE CHOSE to not work on it. He refused and was scared with what he might find out about himself. I cannot understand this. There is no OP, PA, EA in this situation. He wants a roommate, a pal, a caretaker, a mother, NOT A WIFE. I need a husband and I sure don't have one except in name only.
Yet another blow to us that try with all of our might to help our blind spouses see what could and should be. They choose to go into the cave of darkness and drag us with them. He does not want the M to work. He would rather be alone. I cannot fathom why.
I'm really sorry to hear about your H's choice. I'm hopeful my W will make the other choice - it's looking hopeful so far (but it's only been a day)...
Quote: Quote: --------- So, where are we going with these questions? ---------
I learned a simple lesson long ago. Anytime something, anything becomes a mystery, you have missed something simple. well I aint Nancy Drew so it's a mystery to me. Thing is it SHOULD be pretty simple but from where I'm sitting it isn't. Unfortunately, it took a while for me to apply that to my own marriage, even though it serves me well on a daily basis in other areas of my life.
So my point is this; What is it that he is holding against you, in simple terms. I simply don't know and he's not giving me any clues.
If you are indeed attractive physically and/or mentally, and he is functioning normally, then he is making a choice not to pursue you. and that's a smart choice now isn't it! most men that I've run into in my life that discover this about my h say straight out that he's nuts.
Maybe he is intimidated by you. that's a possibility Maybe that is why he had to have an affair - to prove his worth elsewhere. needed the cheerleading from an immature juvenille other mans wife? as far as we all know there was nothing physical going on there either. Maybe he feels that he will never measure up to your standards. those are HIS assumptions...I know for fact (experience has shown) that he is more than capable and then some.
Don't let his motivations become a mystery to you. Make him tell you what the real reason is, then do something about it. and how exactly do I MAKE him tell me? do I sit on him? tie him up and put a light on him? stick bamboo under his finger nails? I mean how, since asking directly, indirectly, ultimatums etc don't get me an answer or solution?
Quote: I know it sounds like I am really pushing ultimatums but at some point the suffering has to stop. Is it savable if you remain patient? Maybe, depends on who you ask. Dr. Laura says no. She says SSM are doomed. I really hate seeing people hurt and these sitchs just seem to agonize on and on. If you are strong enough to survive "status quo", good for you. I mean that. Personnally, I am a demanding guy who wants a lot out of life and I don't settle. Sorry, but patience is one virtue I am truly lacking in. Good luck to all.
so, tbone the only answer I've got is ultimatums? they haven't worked in the past...how's this for a direct telling of what may lie ahead for h...
h, eventually I will be out in the world, working, school etc and some man will find interest in me want to spend time with me be physical with me and I am to say no sorry I've got a man at home who doesn't want me but I have to be faithful just because.
and yes I did once call a laywer to file for d myself (shortly after he came home) wich did elicit some temporary change but as we all know...most changes aren't lasting.
H knows what can happen...heck his ow was married...did that not show him what people will do when their needs aren't being met?
who the hell knows what is going to happen in the end if I become yet another statistic of failed marriage it truly will be the children who suffer no matter what age they are.
Quote: ----------- and how exactly do I MAKE him tell me? do I sit on him? tie him up and put a light on him? stick bamboo under his finger nails? I mean how, since asking directly, indirectly, ultimatums etc don't get me an answer or solution? -----------
So he does like to be in control.
If he is smaller than you, you could always beat a confession out of him.
Seriously. Does this mean you are frightened that he will leave again? Is he holding you captive by his refrain from facing the truth?
Obviously, you don't like the idea of ultimatums. I understand the sentiment. Not wanting to issue them myself cost me a couple decades of peace. When I did finally decide that enough was enough, things changed quickly. I finally ditched most of my anger and got serious about resolving issues in my relationship. Sometimes it is easier for both parties in a conflict to resolve issues when there are no other choices except a form of mutually assured destruction.
In my relationship, my wife is still not HD, even though we now enjoy each other 4 or 5 times week. In addition to the work she did in the relationship, I had to remove impediments that I had placed in the relationship in order for her to be more amenable toward me.
I would still love for her to desire me the way I desire her. Maybe that will happen one day, maybe not. I am perfectly capable of ML several times a day, BUT, it is my ego that thinks I will lose it if I don't use it, not reality. Reality tells me I can be happier with less - and my nuts won't atrophy and fall off.
I am not telling you to settle for less when he might be trying to starve you for the purpose of control - just for you to be sure which one it is.
How do you get information from someone unwilling to give it? Figure out how to make it worth their while to share. Then implement the incentive.
I wish you all the best, LL. -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Gosh, I picked this up from what you've posted and I could have written any of these myself!
he doesn't complain about anything but my complaining.
it is very unlikely that h a) knows why or b) will tell me why.
I've offered possible reasons for him to pick and choose from and still nothing.
..honesty would be far less hurtful than saying nothing or claiming ignorance.
I mean how, since asking directly, indirectly, ultimatums etc don't get me an answer or solution?
From the looks of it your H is just in total denial like mine. I too have tried to communicate directly, indirectly, threatened, cried my heart out, be nice and not pressure, etc etc. I suppose being the HDW is harder as the LD men feels more threatened by any suggestion of their mate's dissatisfaction than would a LDW.
There are many possibilities for his lower drive (only they're not telling ) and for most males they are scary to look at. Denial is usually the first line of defense. Thats why you have the "I dunno" answers. It just doesn't feel right to a man to admit he may not be sexually adequate to meet his wife's needs. After all men like to think of themselves as real studs (whatever that means).
So then how exactly do we resolve the issue since we can't even communicate about it. Any males out there would like to try to decipher this one out? A males POV would be good though its unlikely that we're going to get any LDH posting here for insight. Sigh.
All I know is I'd love it if h were half as interested as he was when he first came home. I mean then it was every day, he couldn't keep his hands off of me, tried to sit on the same couch as me but couldn't without wanting to touch me sexually. It was massages every night (every night that he was here anyway) sometimes in the morning. I'd get a passionate kiss when I'd go out and sometimes just because. He'd try to get in the shower with me or pull me in the shower with him. I could kiss him any time I wanted and really kiss him with no hesitation. Now suddenly it's all up to him again. I sense sometimes that he's interested but is hesitant to make a move so doesn't and yet when I make a move am turned down. It's creating a tension that existed before he left and I know where that led so why can't he see it? Why does he choose to ignore the issue? Why when I make mention of it, does he get pissy, claim he's too busy to talk about it at the moment and then continue to act like I never mentioned it and still do nothing about it?
) and for most males they are scary to look at. Denial is usually the first line of defense. Thats why you have the "I dunno" answers. It just doesn't feel right to a man to admit he may not be sexually adequate to meet his wife's needs. After all men like to think of themselves as real studs (whatever that means).