new chapter with strange WAW

[Steve McQueen]

excellent future. im jealous.

you hear about the gordon lightfoot death hoax?
crazy. I heard sundown at least 4 times on the radio today. lol.

Wanted to make one comment on something made above:

Oh c'mon. I'm sure a bright guy like you could think of quite a few things.

We're told we can't control our spouse's adultery. And it's true -- we can't. But we damned sure don't have to sit idly by and make it EASY on them, either!

I could text her and tell her I thought I saw her house burning down on the news. Then text again a while later and say "False alarm! Sorry, it sure did look like your house!"

I want to go back to one of the first things I wrote to you and that is about walking away without saying a word. I think I am going to harp you on it from now on. Once they start going over seas to see a piece of crap, its time to dump them.

So tell us about your groupie? please no hairy armpits.

I can see her lyin' back in her satin dress
In a room where ya do what ya don't confess

Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin' 'round my back stairs
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin' 'round my back stairs

She's been lookin' like a queen in a sailor's dream
And she don't always say what she really means

Sometimes I think it's a shame
When I get feelin' better when I'm feelin' no pain
Sometimes I think it's a shame
When I get feelin' better when I'm feelin' no pain

I can picture every move that a man could make
Getting lost in her lovin' is your first mistake

Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin' 'round my back stairs
Sometimes I think it's a sin
When I feel like I'm winnin' when I'm losin' again

I can see her lookin' fast in her faded jeans
She's a hard lovin' woman, got me feelin' mean

Sometimes I think it's a shame
When I get feelin' better when I'm feelin' no pain
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin' 'round my back stairs
Sundown ya better take care
If I find you been creepin' 'round my back stairs
Sometimes I think it's a sin
When I feel like I'm winnin' when I'm losin' again

[NoLongerHere]

Now I have that song stuck in my head, Steve.

[Steve McQueen]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

good thing i didnt mention the wreck of the edmund fritzgerald... big lake they call Gitche Gumee

[futureunknown]

I want to go back to one of the first things I wrote to you and that is about walking away without saying a word. I think I am going to harp you on it from now on. Once they start going over seas to see a piece of crap, its time to dump them.

This feels right to me. All this talk about making trouble for her won't accomplish a thing. The fact is she left me, she moved out over a year ago, and she's living her life. Last year I thought maybe, just maybe, we could pull it back together, but she was too wrapped up into OM, and I won't be second choice. You were right to criticize me for the e-mail I sent back in November. There was no point to it. I should have just walked away without saying a word. All that e-mail did was more damage. Maybe I needed to drive her away to help me detach, so perhaps it wasn't all bad.

I am finally detaching from her for real. I can tell because I'm not expending any energy to do it. Last year when I was trying to detach it was an enormous effort for me, like holding back the tide. Now I'm just living my life and she's not in it.

you hear about the gordon lightfoot death hoax?
crazy. I heard sundown at least 4 times on the radio today. lol.

No, I hadn't heard that, but I don't listen to much radio. So funny you bring up Gordon Lightfoot though. Everyone compares my voice to his, both in tone and style. I grew up in the upper midwest near the Canadian border so I guess I picked it up. If I wanted to take the time to learn his hits, I could probably bill myself as a Gordon Lightfoot tribute guy. I might at least learn Sundown to add to my set list!

So much more fun talking about music than separation, affairs, and divorce.

So tell us about your groupie? please no hairy armpits.

LOL! She's cool, I talked with her quite a bit after I played. She was wicked impressed. She's considerably younger than me, but not too young, very fun, and very good looking. Haven't seen her armpits yet! We arranged to all go out again this weekend, as a group.

[CityGirl]

Future, I suggested what I did NOT to make trouble for your W but to perhaps help you avoid some *very* unpleasant proceedings.

Honestly, you seem like a nice guy but I think you are being very naive to what you could run up against. I am not saying you will run up against *anything* but in my experience, things don't get tied up in a neat and shiny bow no matter how much you hope or want them to.

It's not about making trouble. Only you can decide how you want to handle your W's affair. I am simply asking you to consider the fact that you have set a financial precedent in more ways than one that may come back to hurt you if you don't lay some legal framework soon. While this may not be the popular opinion, in this state a MC or a mediator (unless used in tandem with two attnys) just isn't the way to go.

I won't say anything more and I hope with all my heart things go really well for you.

[futureunknown]

Future, I suggested what I did NOT to make trouble for your W but to perhaps help you avoid some *very* unpleasant proceedings.

CityGirl, I wasn't referring to your advice, which I am considering very seriously. I was referring to the discussion of ways I could try to interrupt the purpose of my W's trip, i.e. infidelis interruptus, as Puppy put it.

I very much appreciate your input on all this, so don't abandon me now!

Is it reasonable that I could get an atty and have a complete agreement drafted in the next two weeks? I've already paid a mediator a couple thousand bucks, and we're 95% of the way there, so I'd hate to think all that is lost. The last time we discussed it, my W was waiting for my final comments before we gave the mediator the ok to draft the papers. We only had a couple minor sticking points.

[musclegal]

Hey Future,
Ouch. She is still messing with you. What does a lawyer say about the costs of the D? She is really trying to drag you through the dirt for as long as she can, isn't she? My counsellor tells me to watch out for those 'hooks' my H sends me to try to keep me in the drama. I honestly think that the A is not nearly as much fun for them without the drama of the 3rd person. Its a huge ego boost for her to think that OM and you are both pining for her. Of course it is going to bother you that she is going to see this guy. That's normal, even if you ARE done with who she is now. It brings up a lot of pain and resentment and grief over what should have been between you two---but you don't have to confuse those with actually wanting to get back together with the person WHO SHE IS RIGHT NOW. Future, if I could bet the farm, someday, when this is all over, and she grows up, like you have through all of this, she will regret this and possibly want to give things another shot. But it sounds like she hasn't learned anything yet and she hasn't grown up. My SIL asked me if I'd consider getting back with H when this A crashes, which sees as a given, but he hasn't LEARNED anything. Your job is to do everything you can to save your marriage when you see the brokenness, but when the spouse insists on continuing with the A, you've got no choice but to move on.

I think that there are 2 different kinds of affairs. One kind of affair is when a friendship develops between 2 people slowly and the growing feelings catch them off guard. This likely fills a void from the marriage and seems to be one that is more likely to be "busted". The other kind of affair is more of an addiction. I think that kind of affair involves long distances, the internet, and even more fantasy. When you say you want to work on the marriage, and you do everything you can for as long as you can do it, and the unfaithful spouse doesn't want to stop or can't stop, you have to recognize that it has turned into something that no longer has anything at all to do with you. It has to do with the person being addicted to the high and the drama, which I think is actually sustained by long distances. If you never meet the kids or see the dirty house and never have to fight about who is going to unload the dishwasher, it can be pretty easy to sustain being "in love". My H is in that kind of affair--they have the same date over and over again--meeting at a 4 star hotel in a big city, and going to the best restaurant they can find. Neither of them has ever seen the other's house, seen how they interact with another human being, much less their family members. They can be these two people who look great on the outside for a weekend, but mask tremendous inner pain and turmoil on the inside. Your W's affair seems at least that exotic--if not more. Future, your W needs to learn something. She's on a path to learn it. Maybe in 5 or 10 years you will both come full circle, but you can't be on hold. Your staying in her drama only fuels her addiction. You have to see her as she is RIGHT NOW. Not the person she was or the person she could be. She might become that person in the future, and if she does become that person, and you are available, you can give it a good faith second chance. But you have to deal with who she is right now, and she has to learn more about herself and grow from this. I think she has to hit bottom, like an addict, before she will learn.

I wouldn't do the D before one year if it is going to cause MORE drama and cost you more, but Citygirl has the experience of your state and maybe you need to make a clean break sooner rather than later. If its to end the M emotionally, I think that people who are trying to live with honesty and integrity recognize the danger of jumping into another relationship to soon, anyway. One of my New Year's resolutions was to have a date in 2010. But I've been thinking maybe that's the last thing I need--maybe my resolution should be NOT to have a date in 2010!

Hope your gig went well! (PS, In your other thread, you asked about family time. I am doing one family time event a week for the kids. Tonight we are going to the movies together. So far, its not messing with my head--but part of it is that I'm looking at who my H is, really, right now, and I have no desire to be with him. The man he COULD be is really amazing, but who he right now has no appeal to me at all. Maybe someday he will become that amazing man, but for now, he feels like a 14 year old to me).

[futureunknown]

Thanks musclegal.

Yeah, I've realized that she was keeping me hooked in for security, for ego boost, and as a back up in case things didn't work out like she planned. I've really let her go now, in a way I never have before. I am so much stronger and healthier for it too.

W left to spend two weeks in OM's country yesterday. I picked up the kids Saturday afternoon from W's house, and D6 and S8 were fine, and looking forward to spending time with me. D4 was having a very hard time, and eventually went and hid to try to stop it all from happening. We had to carry her out of the house screaming "No Mommy! Don't go Mommy! I want Mommy!" W tried to convince her that it would be ok, but once a four year old gets into a place like that, nothing you say matters, because they know you're just trying to convince them it's not so bad, when they know it is. I buckled her into the car seat, screaming and crying. I was civil with W, but I didn't say much, just took care of business. W walked away from the car and I said "Bye W", she replied "See ya". My daughter screamed and cried during the whole drive from W's house to mine. I struggled to keep myself composed, and felt extreme anger toward my W.

Later that day W forwarded me an e-mail from the woman in OM's country she's supposedly staying with, saying how she's looking forward to her visiting. I assume this is all to try to persuade me that she's not going there to see OM. At this point, why does she care what I think?

Neither of them has ever seen the other's house, seen how they interact with another human being, much less their family members. They can be these two people who look great on the outside for a weekend, but mask tremendous inner pain and turmoil on the inside. Your W's affair seems at least that exotic--if not more.

I agree completely. OM has never seen the path of pain and destruction my W has left in her wake. Remember, she dumped her first H as well. OM thinks she's just wonderful, and nobody appreciates her.

Future, your W needs to learn something. She's on a path to learn it. Maybe in 5 or 10 years you will both come full circle, but you can't be on hold. Your staying in her drama only fuels her addiction. You have to see her as she is RIGHT NOW.

Exactly. I have finally broken away enough to see this, and I am not going to be on hold. Life is too short and I'm starting to have too much fun.

I wouldn't do the D before one year if it is going to cause MORE drama and cost you more, but Citygirl has the experience of your state and maybe you need to make a clean break sooner rather than later.

I don't think I need to push for the D. My wanting to was just as a way to get leverage over my W. As I'm letting it go, I just don't care all that much. As long as I can live my life without being all intertwined with hers, I'm fine. A legal separation gives me that.

One of my New Year's resolutions was to have a date in 2010. But I've been thinking maybe that's the last thing I need--maybe my resolution should be NOT to have a date in 2010!

Dating is very good to regain your sense of worth, and to have fun. You have to keep it very light though, because the danger of the rebound R is very high, and then you've just got another heartache to deal with.

Hope your gig went well! (PS, In your other thread, you asked about family time. I am doing one family time event a week for the kids. Tonight we are going to the movies together. So far, its not messing with my head--but part of it is that I'm looking at who my H is, really, right now, and I have no desire to be with him. The man he COULD be is really amazing, but who he right now has no appeal to me at all. Maybe someday he will become that amazing man, but for now, he feels like a 14 year old to me).

Thanks! As you probably read, it did go very well, and I'm looking forward to doing it again. I'm surprised you're doing planned family things. Last year I would've done it too, but now that I'm stepped back, I see it's not really a good thing, even though it might seem like that for the kids' sake. All it does is confuse them and prolong the inevitable. If your H isn't coming back, what's the point, and if he is, then he needs to declare that and ask you to take him back. Since he is the one that left the M, he should live with the consequences of leaving family time behind. If he still wants family time, he shouldn't have left the M.

[futureunknown]

My W is gone to OM's country for two weeks, and it couldn't have come at a better time. I'm making plans to take the kids down south for spring break with a couple other families. I'm motivated to pursue this music thing a little bit, just for fun. I'm doing well at work. I don't know what will happen with this woman I met, but it's awesome just to be back in the game. I don't obsess about my sitch all the time any more, in fact hardly at all. I think I've finally made it out of the woods.

To any newcomers out there who can't see any light at the end of their tunnel, hang in there. GAL the best you can, and try not to dwell on everything bad going on. You will feel better. It's taken me over a year, but I've finally made it through. I can honestly say I see my life being happy without my W. In fact, even if she did at some point indicate a desire to reconcile, I wouldn't be very interested. She'd have to pursue and convince me over a long period of time to even have a chance.

I think I prolonged getting here by continuing to pursue my W over the last year. I did ok not openly doing things to pursue her, but in my head, all I wanted was to desperately have my W back. Key word there is desperate, and it kept me from accepting the reality of my life. I see so many possibilities now and the fact that I don't have to deal with my W is lifting a huge weight off me.

She continues to intrude though. Yesterday in the mail each of the kids got a customized audio valentine. She put her voice on them, saying how much she loves each of the kids, and they were walking all around the house, playing them over and over. So even though she's thousands of miles away, I'm forced to hear her voice in my home. I know my kids love her dearly, so I don't blame them for that, but does she really not consider it intrusive to place her recorded voice into my home while she's gone on her trip? Or as Puppy says, she's doing it for the same reason a dog licks his ****s.

[BeingMe]

does she really not consider it intrusive to place her recorded voice into my home while she's gone on her trip?

I doubt if she considers your feelings at all, and if she knew it bothered you, would just say "get over it". She clearly does not care a hoot about any of this has affected you, or even the kids. But, she doesn't want to be forgotten either. Weird!

You have taken the time to do what you thought was right, and now you are over it and moving on. I salute you, and hope for the best as you do move on.