in nov of 2001 when dd was 3 months old h called saying he'd be late had to give someone a ride ala disclosure of secret friendship he'd been carrying on with female customer for some time. we talked of D for a bit and he spent some nights at his parents while I stewed. We decided to not d but realized things needed to change. we started going out weekley and also having sex weekly!! (h has been ld for many many years prior to the start of "friendship" with ow and he still denies ever being physical with her)
by april of 2002 h decides he can't do this anymore and moves out (I find out later that he continued friendship with ow who is/was married with two children)
by june of 2002 h gives me the "I love you I'm not in love with you line" and says "yes I want a divorce" I find db and this bb (thus the close to 5000 posts)
in july of 2002 I speak to ow (I had spoken to her several times during this whole sit, she claims they are just friends and gives the line "thought we are capable of being friends that doesn't mean we are right for a relationship" and also says "I'm not leaving my h, maybe someday I will I haven't been happy for a long time, but no I'm not leaving my h"
by aug of 2002 ow is asking her h for a d
by late sept 2002 my h is claiming to be confused and feeling like he is in hell and wants to come hom
by christmas 2002 h is home ow is still a customer her house is put on market in april 2003 but doesn't sell. Don't know if she is still planning to d her h. My h claims she is just some one he takes a check from and has nothing to do with...he doesn't go there alone and she is not there when he goes (he's a landscaper)
when ssm came out h was already home. When h first started comming home I thought the "problem" had been solved. He was intitating all the time in fact couldn't get enough of me. Though it did make me uncomfortable in thinking perhaps he had been that way with her it was fun and what I had been missing with him all along.
there is no longer a threat of d on h's side and I believe that ow is gone from his life however the sex issue is still an issue for me and I'm feeling like what I put up with wasn't worth it for this barely there ssm.
h is caring h is a hard worker h is a good parent h calls during the day to see how we are (I'm an at home mom) h does cuddle me in bed or on the couch unless he's tired and sore and does give the disclaimer if so. h kisses me (though I doubt much different than he'd kiss his mother) goodbye and hello each day.
I have had many many threads this is my first here in ssm..I do have a thread in piecing called "my last thread" if you care to get another perspective before responding here.
I'm just trying to find a way to either "fix" this problem of our ssm (and yes I have talked til blue, and cried etc. explained, said nothing, tried to initiate, not done anything etc) as I believe it is the residing issue in our m and possibly the issue that led to the "big" problems.
I am reluctant to intitate with h out of fear of rejection as I had been rejected many many times in the past (before ow etc) H will initiate maybe once a week but more likely twice a month. I am not over weight and neither is h, infact we are both pretty damn good looking if ya asked me.
reaching a point where I almost don't want h to intitate as then it becomes oh sure why now?? then I can't enjoy it and am left to wonder why so that I may find some pattern and recreate...no pattern exhists.
so how many hd spouses have heard from their ld spouse..."that's just the way I am"
or even had them admit they notice things are better and calmer in the r after the occassion that they do intitate but for whatever reason they don't keep the ball rolling?
You know, I personally believe it when your H says he did not get physical with OW. I had a similiar experience once, and I can tell you about it if you want to hear.
I'm interested, though, in what YOU think your H was getting from that encounter?
Quote: I'm interested, though, in what YOU think your H was getting from that encounter?
thanks for the reply corri, thought I was going to get lost in the shuffle here.
what do I think h got from those encounters (it was a "friendship" that had been going on for about a year before I found out and then continued for another year through seperation etc before he came home and "had" to give her up) I could accept their "friendship" may have at one time been non-physical, but I find it hard to believe that a man and a woman would leave leave their homes and ask their spouses for divorce to persue being together and not so much as kiss each other??
I'd love to hear about your experience if you'd like to share but I know the drill.
so back to what do I think h was getting out of that r???
gee let's see...she (a woman married to a man who probably treated her much like my h treats me...works and provides a home for her and the children etc) thought my h was great...they (ow and her h) had built a new home that needed landscaping so they hired my h, she made him posters of her yard. In reading the letters she wrote to him she's pretty damn immature she a grown woman actually signed letters 1436 (in case you've grown up and forget highschool lingo that's i love you always)
of course it was easy for her to think he was wonderful..he was paying attention to her...he was stopping by her house, calling her to go to lunch..so why wouldn't be happy around him..he was her escape...she could cry to him and complain about her h and my h could console her (she has cancer and 'claims' her h doesn't care boo hoo poor wittle ow) while I sat at home alone with h basically just providing for me, denying any request to go out together..denying an invitation to grab some lunch with son and I if we happend to be in the area he works (and yet he somehow made time to be with her a few days a week here and there)
I just don't get how he wants to blame me...claim that I am misserable and unhappy...well gee h think about it..I'm sitting here being your cheerleader and I'm not getting half of what your little "friend" got from you. why should I be happy...I feel like I'm just the wife you came home to out of guilt.
for what it's worth during seperation (and mind you durning seperation we were fully seperated, shift changers in child care is about all) though he denied being physical with her, he did admit to wanting to.
she also denied, even when he left her (or rather decided not to persue being with her) ever being physical with her. That was after making the statement "You are stronger than I am, it's one think to repair a m after an a, but to know that your h is in love with someone else" But then I also know that most ow will never admit to it anyway and she did lie to me at least once so who the heck knows. suppose it doesn't really matter but the question of whether or not he's keeping a truth from me is keeping part of me at bay. don't want to believe a lie and don't want to not believe the truth.
had a "fight" with him last night surrounding the whole sex issue again. I don't like to fight about it and try not to, I just can't deal with the "that's just me" attitude and the cutting looks I get when I try to explain how his just being him effects me, then I get from him the "no matter what I do your just never happy" ugh!!!
Hate to do this go you, gal, but you didn't answer my question. You told me what you think 'she' was getting out of it, but you didn't tell me what you think your 'h' was getting from the encounter.
I know you are pissed about the whole thing. I don't blame you. I don't really give a crappola what the OW got from the experience as she is a loser, and we both know that.
What was going on in your lives that H's attention was able to be diverted, and what do you think he was getting from it?
You also made some other intersting points here; what he says happened, and whether you believe him.
There is still a forgiveness issue going on with you; because if you'd truly forgiven him, it wouldn't matter to you one way or another. What would matter to you is from this day forward.
So you are still dealing with palpable anger, trust and forgiveness issues. I'm sure he is picking up on that. I'm not blaming you in the least, but can you see how you may still be contributing to this endless cycle?
Hate to do this go you, gal, but you didn't answer my question. You told me what you think 'she' was getting out of it, but you didn't tell me what you think your 'h' was getting from the encounter. sorry for that, thought that in expressing what she got you could see what he was getting. so then what was he getting? someone who thought he was wonderful, he got to be the knight in shining armor, the good guy, the guy looked up to, she was a cheerleader for him, someone who was happy just to have him there (well gee after all what woman wouldn't like the attention) I know you are pissed about the whole thing. I don't blame you. I don't really give a crappola what the OW got from the experience as she is a loser, and we both know that. then why do I feel like the loser?
What was going on in your lives that H's attention was able to be diverted, we had just moved into a new home, started trying for second child, his parents were selling their home (the home he grew up in) his sister was getting married and having a child, then not having a child and not getting married, then getting married, then not etc. his business was thriving, he took a shot at getting back on the fire dept but was turned down (claimed it to be no big deal, if he really wanted to persue it he could have) and what do you think he was getting from it? as stated above, someone who was always happy to hear from him and expected nothing from him at all (how could she, she had no right to expect anything from him he was after all just her landscaper why should she care what time he got home from work or if he saw son or not for days as a result of working too much)
You also made some other intersting points here; what he says happened, and whether you believe him.
There is still a forgiveness issue going on with you; because if you'd truly forgiven him, it wouldn't matter to you one way or another. What would matter to you is from this day forward. I just want to know what I'm forgiving him for. should it matter at this point what happend? will he pay extra if he DID do anything with her? no it's just that I would like to know and thus far his answer leaves me wondering. It's like this...if there are cookies missing from the cookie jar and I forgive my son for taking them but he didn't take them well that's not fair is it? however if he did take them and just doesn't want to fess up and I forgive him that's a tad different isn't it? becuase forgiving doesn't mean forgetting I'd just like to know what I'm putting in the past is all.
So you are still dealing with palpable anger, trust and forgiveness issues. I'm sure he is picking up on that. I'm not blaming you in the least, but can you see how you may still be contributing to this endless cycle? I know that I contribute to the cycle by being reserved and scared but what can I do about that when the reassurance of h's fully and passionately wanting to be with ME isn't displayed?
Quote: I just want to know what I'm forgiving him for. should it matter at this point what happend? will he pay extra if he DID do anything with her? no it's just that I would like to know and thus far his answer leaves me wondering.
Listen to yourself here. He has given you his answer, but you are the one still in doubt. Take him for his word and move on. You are forgiving him for exactly what he has told you. Period. If some other information is brought to light in the future, deal with it then. Don't go borrowing trouble. You are going to have to find a way to let this one go.
Or, is it that you still WANT to be mad at him?
Quote: (She was) someone who was always happy to hear from him and expected nothing from him at all
Bingo. There is the beginning to your answer. She helped make him feel good about himself. She made no demands, laid down no expectations. He could be himself and was not criticized for all that he 'wasn't' doing.
You, on the other hand, are sending him mixed signals. You tell him you want to feel closer to him, yet you continue to act in an angry manner toward him.
Remember, anger is a defense mechanism in our 'fight or flight' interaction with our environment. Anger is there to send a signal to whatever or whomever is trying to hurt us to STAY AWAY.
So you're telling him you want to be closer, but your actions are screaming at him to stay away. You are like a rider kicking your horse to gallop, yet at the same time you are yanking back on the reins. He doesn't know what to do, so, like a horse, he just stands there and feels all jumpy.
But you gotta be careful of this, because like a horse, he is going to reach his limit and try to get you off his back so he can bite you in the butt for all that kicking and yanking.
So which is it? Do you want to be mad at him, or do you want to be close to him?
Quote: I know that I contribute to the cycle by being reserved and scared but what can I do about that when the reassurance of h's fully and passionately wanting to be with ME isn't displayed?
Girl!!! He DOES want to be with you!! He came back, he's in the house with you, he LOVES you. Believe it or not, YOU are the one being unclear here, not him.
first, I want to thank you for taking the time to help me here.
Quote: Listen to yourself here. He has given you his answer, but you are the one still in doubt. Take him for his word and move on. You are forgiving him for exactly what he has told you. Period. If some other information is brought to light in the future, deal with it then. Don't go borrowing trouble. You are going to have to find a way to let this one go.
Or, is it that you still WANT to be mad at him?
I don't WANT to be mad at him, but there is a bit of me that is still feeling resentful over feeling like I got screwed. I was after all unhappy with the r and upon learning about his "friendship" and dealing with his leaving let feelings fester of "I'm the one who should have done it".
My fear of letting the question of was it a pa rest is that I don't want to get comfortable believing him and then learn a different story. You are right though, no point in waiting for the other shoe to drop, when/if it does I will deal with it then.
Quote: Bingo. There is the beginning to your answer. She helped make him feel good about himself. She made no demands, laid down no expectations. He could be himself and was not criticized for all that he 'wasn't' doing.
I know I know, but if he WAS giving me what he was giving her I wouldn't have criticized. Now I'm put in a position where if I'm not getting what I want I still feel I cannot express it to him for fear of making him again feel that he's not good enough. Tough position to be in as I feel I'm not good enough and when asking for reassurance am somehow sending the message that he's not good enough. UGH!!
Quote: Remember, anger is a defense mechanism in our 'fight or flight' interaction with our environment. Anger is there to send a signal to whatever or whomever is trying to hurt us to STAY AWAY.
I've expressed to him many times that my anger is primarily based in fear. H assures me that I have nothing to fear anymore...so then why am I still afraid? guess that gets back to trust.
Quote: So you're telling him you want to be closer, but your actions are screaming at him to stay away. You are like a rider kicking your horse to gallop, yet at the same time you are yanking back on the reins. He doesn't know what to do, so, like a horse, he just stands there and feels all jumpy.
But you gotta be careful of this, because like a horse, he is going to reach his limit and try to get you off his back so he can bite you in the butt for all that kicking and yanking.
So which is it? Do you want to be mad at him, or do you want to be close to him?
things go best when I back off and just treat him like a friend...but then when I wish there was more (ie h being more physical) I wonder if I'm being jipped and start to feel afraid wich inturn pushes him away.
Quote: Girl!!! He DOES want to be with you!! He came back, he's in the house with you, he LOVES you. Believe it or not, YOU are the one being unclear here, not him.
damn it, you made me cry!! I don't "think" that I'm being unclear but "know" that I am when I start letting my fears show through.
why do I think that all these feelings would be resolved if h would just show more interest physically?
