Thought I was done

[NoLongerHere]

Thanks Bill -

Back in CA now. Man, that makes for a long day.

every time she lashes out at you, and you handle it without lashing back, a positive deposit is made.

Yeah - in general I've recognized that I need to be better about it. Today I didn't really have a chance to speak - but I acknowledge, she's right in that, gotta take care of money and bills, so I plunked the money in the account.

Funny though...the cycle IS pretty predictable, and even you are realizing it now.

Yeah. Push-pull. Has been going on since the first of the year at least. This was new behavior though - but she's really having intense feelings. Well, no other choice than see what the next moment brings.

When you handle these situations with calmness, truth, not wussing out and giving in but also not trading tit for tat, it sends the message that you have you squared away. And it says that you are doing that thing that the WAS so often NEEDS to see (though they will never, until the very end, tell us they need) - the LBS remaining the rock in the relationship.

I certainly hope so.

Isn't it odd how you can be the soothing voice when she is messed up inside? You can't convince me that there is not positive in that.

Yeah - it's a hallmark of our relationship though - and I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, in that she recognizes that she's got some level of dependency on me, and wants to break that. I think it's upsetting to her that, I'm still the one person that knows her best and can do that for her.

You sound strong. That's awesome.

Yeah, I'm doing OK today. The phone call did shake me a little, but I got up and did my job today without problem.

I still want to call her, but I think it's out of a sense of not wanting to leave this unresolved. Probably to some degree to make sure she's OK; but now that I type that there's a part of me that really just doesn't want to deal with her right now... what if she DID call the lawyer, I don't want to worry about it tonight. Crap, I'm tired.

Will probably call in the morning to talk about the Cub Scout thing. I have a sneaking suspicion that she took the boys to her mother's tonight - they had a half-day at school, and she's been talking about the feeling she has of wanting to crawl up into a ball and escape.

So I guess my plan is to eat a late dinner, read, and go to bed. Kind of feel a little lonely, but nothing too big. Yeah, I guess I'm strong today - not struggling to cope or anything.

I'm thinking about, if we were to come back together, she would see it as a compromise. Plus, I fear that she's always going to be miserable. Maybe thoughts for another day. Maybe the "I don't know if this is the relationship I want" is a momentary thing - can be changed with work, therapy, what have ya.

Hm. Have I detached? Is this what it feels like?

Thanks Bill for the response -

[The Wifey]

I'm still 30 pounds down from when this started, and my hair is noticeably thinner.

OK, cheap opportunity for self-pity. So what...

I'm back to about 122 pounds from a low of 104. My Doctor was not happy with me when I dropped that low.

See if you keep rescuing then nothing changes. She made a choice and choices have consequences. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing when she makes statements like that. Just take it in and look at her quietly.

[NoLongerHere]

Yeah, that does seem alarmingly low. Good you've come back.
I', 6'2 was was probably a tad over 200 lbs back in July. I'm in the 170s now - people keep telling me how different I look. My appetite is fine now, but I guess no second helpings of home-cooked meals. Don't know.

Annnnyway - Yeah, you're right about that I suppose, the rescuing.
She sent a text this morning that she's not going to the Cub Scout banquet, and asked when I wanted to pick up the boys. Said thank you as well, regarding the $. Called her back, but no answer - and didn't ring long, so pretty sure she saw it was me and sent it to message.

Not sure what's going on. Well, pretty clearly, she doesn't want to be around me or talk to me. I imagine now she's mad at herself for being "vulnerable", mad at me for who knows what - think she's inventing reasons, but knowing that she's feeling scared about finances, being alone, being stuck in this situation without good options, and talking in therapy about her needs not being met, there's plenty to project on to me.

Kind of feeling like I can shrug it off. I really don't have expectations about what's going to happen, so I guess at this point I'm OK. And I imagine, with the way she's been talking, she's curled up in a ball and engaging in self-pity.

So - I guess off to Costco to pick up a "main dish" to take to the banquet. Up until now, we've still been largely working as a team on these things - I wonder if this is an inflection point. Don't know what to do about it other than get on with my day.

Maybe now that "Stuck" has become "MrBond" I can take his user name.

[The Wifey]

Bill,

You aren't stuck. No. Let's see...........

How about Tall Man? My son is about your height and a friend of ours calls him that.

I'll have to give it more thought I guess.

[NoLongerHere]

He he. I don't know what I am. Actually, stuck isn't right, I feel like I'm in a tunnel, and the only choice is to keep putting 1 foot in front of the other. What's that quote from Churchill - "If you're going through Hell, keep going."

With W swinging back and forth, it's effective limbo. I really don't think this is going to work out. But it's not resolving either. So I don't feel like I'm waiting or hoping in particular. I'm just living my life.

I picked the boys up last night, went to the banquet, took them home. W was, in a word, just distant. She was pleasant enough, so that was an improvement. When I picked them up, I said "are you OK?" and she just said yes. When I dropped them off, we talked briefly, then she said "Well I need to kick you out to get these kids to bed." Her mother was there too, so I guess she came down to keep her company. All very different.

I didn't do much other than participate in that level of conversation.

We weren't at the event but 10 minutes before one of my boys ran into a light post, ended up with a huge goose-egg on his head and a bloody mouth. He was OK, but that was the drama for the night.

I do miss her.

I've said things in therapy like, for the distraught behavior my sons are showing, I don't know how she doesn't feel responsible for that. And her responding about how I don't get it, her needs weren't being met. She acknowledges that I did an awful lot in the marriage for her, in an "acts of service" way. You can't debate the legitimacy of how someone feels (feelings just are, they say at Retrouville) - and I could talk a lot about her background, how needy she is, that her needs were more than anyway could fulfill - all that stuff, doesn't matter now, because my point is - it makes me really, really sad that she was so sad. Let's strip away all the things that have happened - and just look at this - in the end, I love her, and I hate that she felt so empty, desperate, hurt. That even now she's been in such a miserable state.

I was listening to the song "Rain" by Patty Griffin last night, and it really seemed to capture how W has said she's felt. It made me very sad. And I wonder, do we both have a chance to be happier outside this M. If she's got this chasm of needs that I can never fill.

I don't know guys; we've demonstrated over the last few months that we love each other, that we still have a bond; I've been a good husband, and she says over and over again that the list of things that she likes, admires about me is long. She says that she loves being married, she doesn't want divorce.

But she also says that loving me is like running into a brick wall. This is where the "we're both good people, we're just incompatible" speech comes up.

She said in therapy that she doesn't feel like she's ever been able to show how much she loved me in our M - and she's known it's in me, but perceives that I'm not able to show her because of the because of the walls, or rules in my head, or however she perceives it.

I'm not looking for answers here, just putting my thoughts down. I don't want to trap her in a marriage where she's miserable. I'm still not sure it's me and the M. Can I change enough to meet her needs? I don't know. People around me, family and friends, tell me they observe that I've put so much energy into this relationship over the years, to the exclusion of everything else; but W still feels that hole. Is it me, or is it her? And, besides everything that's happened with the trust between us... will this fundamental issue ever fix?

OK that's enough for now. Much more than I intended to write. Time to walk to Starbucks and find something to eat for breakfast. My new life. Yeah, one of these days I'm going back to church.

Happy Sunday guys -

[NoLongerHere]

Crap - well that sucked - I sat in Starbucks staring out the window at the clouds thinking until I realized I was crying and had to leave.

Thinking about W's feelings.

Early in our relationship, we saw a movie called "What Dreams May Come" - sort of a metaphysical love story where the main character literally travels to Hell to save his wife. After we saw it, my W said, "That's how I feel about you." Yeah, the whole "I would go to the depths of Hell for you" kind of love. (Read the subtext here that, there is an element of codependent "saving" each other that's probably not healthy, but let's not address that for the moment.)

To feel that - and, from her perspective - not feel it back? And knowing that I felt it too, but somehow that didn't come across. And now where we are, what's been lost. How did we get here?

God, I'm still crying - where the hell did this come from all of a sudden?

[LookingFrAnswers]

(((Bill)))
Thanks for stopping by my thread. I am sorry you are going through this now. If you need to cry, cry. You have to process your feelings. This is not a straight line we go through in this. Sometimes 1 step forward, 2 back. Even if you do wind up together, this is a greiving process. For the old M. I read that on here somewhere, and thought, that is true. Things will never be the same. Maybe you see that you can never go back to the old M. But when you think of all the pain you've gone through, is that really a bad thing?

I keep seeing (for me) how this is such a zigzag path. But like Churchill said keep walking when going through hell. Good quote. Keep moving - as you're doing.

Thinking of you & sending support (((())))).

[karen43]

She acknowledges that I did an awful lot in the marriage for her, in an "acts of service" way. You can't debate the legitimacy of how someone feels (feelings just are, they say at Retrouville) - and I could talk a lot about her background, how needy she is, that her needs were more than anyway could fulfill - all that stuff, doesn't matter now, because my point is - it makes me really, really sad that she was so sad. Let's strip away all the things that have happened - and just look at this - in the end, I love her, and I hate that she felt so empty, desperate, hurt. That even now she's been in such a miserable state.

I think you both have issues to work on. She, if she is/has been sad, empty, desperate, and hurt needs to work on that herself. One thing I've learned in this experience is that you can't rely on others or things (I was always thinking a new house would solve my problems). You have to make yourself happy and not look to a relationship or someone else to solve your problems, as your W seems to.

You need to detach, stop focusing on your wife, and focus on yourself, your music, your boys, etc. I don't think your W will be happy with anyone until or unless she works on her own issues. If she's truly a desperate, sad, empty person and doesn't work on that, I predict you will be happier without her....

[MarkG]

Glad to hear I'm not the only 1 falling back into it all, but sorry it's happening to you too. My latest issues have prevented me from moving forward, and now I'm falling backward. If you think she's at the point of wanting to R maybe it's time to lay down some "if you want this to work you have to work on yourself" and give her some ideas of what you want her to do. I think you already said you were in counseling with her, but tell her why you're becoming apprehensive and see if she doesn't 180. I wish my W was on the fence instead of over it.

[NoLongerHere]

Hey guys -

Thank you for the responses and encouragement.

I think it's possible that I'm experiencing the next step in letting go.

The things that I've belched out in therapy are now exercised... and I've heard W talk about her needs. Don't know, for lack of a better metaphor, it feels like maybe my feet have touched the bottom of the pool.

I did call W. I told her that I heard her, I understand, that I don't want her to be miserable.

Maybe I've reached the point where I stripped everything back, I know I love her and that I need to let her go.

I think it's over.

She said she's going to send an email tomorrow about settlement stuff, that I'll like it, that she doesn't want to fight anymore, that I'm a great dad and she thinks I should be in the house with the boys, she wants to move into the apartment, etc. I don't know what her proposal is going to be. But she says we can't go on like this, and I agree.

I don't know, I'm not feeling fear of the future, worry or anger over finances, fear of being alone - I kind of feel like I found myself a little and I realize that this is the path. I'm feeling like I love her but not in a "have to have her back" kind of way.

I feel like I'm done analyzing and asking why. It's just done. Yeah, LFA, I guess it's grieving that's coming with acceptance. It should not have ever been like this. We had it, the real thing. But it is like this.

Karen - yeah, I tend to agree with what you're saying. She has to work on herself. W has been similar to what you describe - new house, new friends, new hobby, vacation - she was obsessed with retirement (in a "THEN I'll be happy" kind of way). And yeah, I always felt the need to oblige - this is what friends and family observed, in how I accommodated her. She's got to work that out. Will I be happier without her? Maybe.

Not sure what else to say at the moment.