No longer "stuck808". Now my name is Bond. "MrBond

[MrBond]

25yearsmlc,

Sorry if the post made me sound "flawless". I'm pretty sure I didn't detail everything that I did wrong in the R. There was a whole list of things I wrote down in the beginning of all the things I had to change. They are in a journal I keep.

At the start I made a decision to change those manners and things about me that were wrong or what I didn't like. I think over the course of this 2 year journey, I did change them and don't think much about them any more because the person who I am today is definitely not the person who I was 2 years ago.

Those things that I wrote down back then were things that I had to come up with. My W never told me specifically what was wrong. She would tell things that were out of left field, like how she felt pressured to give me sex and that we had sex 2-3 times a week. Which we never did. It was about once every 2-3 weeks. This was just an example, but when I ask my W about it today, she says she forgot what she said.

So while I know a few of the things that bothered her about me, the list of things I felt I had to change were things that I came up with after much retrospection. They were big and little things, but I feel I did change those. My whole family has noticed.

In my sitch, it really is about her. She feels she doesn't want to be married any more and that's that. She hasn't gone out with anyone else, she says she's afraid of me, yet can hang out. I think the changes I made in me did allow her to feel more comfortable when she was around, and she started respecting me again after I stood up to her behaviors or facts that I felt were just plain wrong.

I really don't think I am blameless by all means. In fact, I constantly told her (even before the bomb) that if there was something bothering her about me or if there was something I needed to change, that she just needed to tell me. I shouldn't have let her keep things in when I saw she was, and there was A LOT of mindreading on my part because she wouldn't open up.

It's funny you said it sounded like I was saying I was blameless, because to every one of my friends I've told them that it was my fault for the issues (not the A, that's still her responsibility). And that I wish even now she could tell me what she's thinking. She never told me that there was something I needed to change. She never told me what irked her. I mean, she would get irritated like when I honked at someone who would cut me off on the road, but aside from that not really.

We've never really talked about the future or spirituality or even politics. They are all things that she never showed interest in. I've asked her about them, but she just shrugs and says 'I don't know'.

That's what makes my sitch so frustrating. I mean normally when people break up there's a list of things they don't like about the other person. She's never told me. Little snatches come out in anger, but I don't know if they were really reasons or things just to be spiteful. Even now when I ask her, she says it doesn't matter because she just doesn't want to be married any more.

As for the forgiving part. I think that was the hardest lesson for me to learn. To this day I do a lot of thoughtful things for her, don't bring up the A, told her I forgave her and am extremely kind and generous to her. And I've grown to expect nothing in return. And that's when I feel the saddest sometimes. The girl who I was seeing was fantastic and was attentive, generous to me, attractive, etc. She was all that but she wasn't my W.

I felt connected to my W in that kind of unspoken way and still am. Am I an idiot for staying? That's up to each person's opinion. I just don't feel I need to move on yet.

[Gnosis]

Mr Bond, Dr Gno here... again... forgive me for asking (because I'm too lazy to read/re-read the 1000 or so posts regarding your sitch)...

1) What (if anything) did YOU do to create a crisis?
2) How and why is she still holding you hostage?
3) How did you demonstrate what she will be losing by leaving from a R with you?

Sorry if it's a rehash, but SPECTRE has taken an interest in this in this... Oh no! It's Dr Gno... again!

[MrBond]

Since I'm on a roll, I think the biggest problem my W had with me that made the most sense was the issue of blame.

When I apologized for an argument, I always EXPECTED her to apologize too as I felt we would both be wrong. That was wrong of me and so for the past two years, if I did something wrong I apologized, end of story. Since this stuff happened, I don't recall her apologizing about anything, even for small things like picking up the kids late or having me wait for her. I thought she would say something after her boss said he tried to have me arrested/fired, etc. but she didn't say a word. But I don't expect apologies from her either. I just apologize for myself for things I felt I did wrong.

Since I'm on this "analyzing" state of mind, I guess I'll journal a few thoughts. I wonder if my W feels guilty of all that's been going on but hasn't said anything because that would mean that she was wrong. I wonder if she feels that she got on this train of getting D and even though she doesn't feel it's the right decision, she sees no other way than to stay on course. This is where a mentor would be good for her.

25yearsmlc, that's why I value posters like you, Puppy, gucci and the others. You get me to think about the things that I have done and could be doing to make MY life better.

[MrBond]

Dr. Gno (cool name),

Here are your answers:
1) What (if anything) did YOU do to create a crisis?
You know, I really don't know if there was any one thing that cause the crisis. I mean, we had our problems like any other married couple. Nothing too major that I was aware of. I think my W had just hit a MLC triggered by the death of her grandmother who raised her, threat of losing her job, her boss showing her lots of attention, our D being born, all within a couple months.

I asked her if she was okay in each situation, tried to get her to talk, told her I'd listen, etc. But she told me everything was "fine". I think she just has poor coping skills.

2) How and why is she still holding you hostage?
I definitely don't think she's holding me hostage. It is my choice to stay not her. Even though she wants a D, she hasn't done anything to move forward. The life that she claimed she wanted (going out, getting a boob job, going to the gym, etc.) she hasn't done at all in two years. She just stays home and does things alone.

What she does is up to her. I keep myself busy and have become a better man and most importantly a better father.

3) How did you demonstrate what she will be losing by leaving from a R with you?
I wouldn't say I demonstrated anything on purpose. I changed those things in my character that she thought was negative, but most importantly, the more I read about R and how men are, I changed things that "I" thought were negative.

Sure I did the outward stuff too. Like I dressed a little better, worked out more, etc.

There was a period where I was going out with someone just because the timing seemed right and she knew about it. Did that make her come back? Nope. But the experience showed me what I felt was important. I figured I wanted to be M to my W and that was that. Sure I could move on with someone else and maybe I will, but just not now. My gut is just telling me it's not time.

What did all of this experience teach me? The most important thing was that I got back my self-worth. That regardless of what she would say, "I" was a good person. "I" mattered. That's important when all you've been hearing from the WAS is that you don't count in their eyes. We DO count. We DO matter and We ARE important.

[25yearsmlc]

Bond,
Your responses sound thoughtful. I'll reflect more before responding fully.

But so you know, while I do believe it takes two to make a M work, sometimes it really does just take one person to divorce...but from what you say, so far (again, I'll give this real thought shortly) you seem to have probably done too much mind reading and that can be due to conflict avoidance, fear of some sort, or even laziness. Regardless, I suspect you won't do it "next time"...

Welcome to the club of humans, wherein we all make mistakes...But those of us who try to learn from this terribly painful experience by staring at some scary things within us, and figure out something positive to gain, to "do our best and leave the rest..." - we try not to repeat the same mistakes. I suspect you are in that group. And In the final analysis, isn't That's all any of us can do?


Later,

j-

[MrBond]

Thanks 25yearsmlc. Yep I'm still learning.

"mind reading and that can be due to conflict avoidance, fear of some sort, or even laziness."

There was definitely mind reading on my part. Conflict avoidance on my W's. Probably fear on both our sides. I doubt laziness because I've tried to talk to her and she would just say "just drop it" before I could find out the root of the problem.

I just hope that even now she slowly opens up. It just gets a little draining after 2 years. But I gave up another wonderful woman for her, so I'm sticking by my decision to stick for her for now.

[pigskin]

You are one hell of a man, 007.

Two years of being put through the wringer of your W's affair coupled with her depression when another option was sitting in your lap for the taking is impressive.

Hopefully the day is coming where your W will wake up and realize that you walked through hell and back to save your marriage, and then recognize what she has in you.

There's probably a reason why your gut is telling you to hang in there.

[MrBond]

It has been one helluva ride. But it has made me a much better person and a better partner for my W or whomever.

One thing I think the OM did was to feed her low self-esteem. He was her boss after all, so giving her praise would be only natural. I've been trying to find additional ways to give her "Words of Affirmation" when we are together. I've been trying to do it consistently so it doesn't sound fake.

Any suggestions of "Words of Affirmation"?

[Hope4us]

Bond, You asked on my thread for me to take a look and see if I had any ideas. I haven't had the chance to read your recent sitch and if I'm confusing it with another, forgive me, but you wife still works with OM, correct?

If that's the case, I don't think you guys will ever stand a chance of making your marriage work because your wife will be in a constant state of her own "limbo". She'll never get through the WD of OM while she's working with/seeing/communicating in any way with OM.

My W was in severe WD for probably a month after she ended contact with OM. Even though I saw glimpses of my old W in there at times, it was almost a year after contact ended with OM that I began to really see changes in her. And probably another 3 months or so before she was willing to share with me what she was going through.

I commend you for trying it this way, but IMHO, as long as she works with/for OM, you don't stand a chance.

Again, if I'm confusing you with someone else, disregard this and I'll try to catch up when I have time.

H4U.

[MrBond]

Thanks H4U.

Actually the OM is retiring next week. Read the first page of this thread and you'll see what happened. He actually showed up at my working place and tried to get me fired.