WAW Using God II

[25yearsmlc]

Pigskin,

Couple questions for discussion about faith and your sitch...I apologize for the length of this but it's really interesting that your w's taken this "approach"...First--on R's, have you read "The Five Love Languages"? I suggest that one b/c the mind reading won't happen so much and if it does, it'll be way more accurate.
As for the underlying issues that are raised by all this--b/c we do hear a lot about WAS's finding their NEW soul mates...

Have you read the book, "Blue Like Jazz"? I ask b/c it deals with a lot of religious beliefs and questions and how they work in our society and it's a series of short essays, well written and often funny. I do not agree with all that he says, fyi, but he discusses how people can misuse religion to suit themselves. And the flaws in doing it. I'm paraphrasing, but
the author explores how when a person quotes scripture a lot in an argument, it's to "win the argument" (ego!) rather than to show God's love, or the power of redemption.

I'm Catholic (or try to be) as well and cannot tell you how many Protestant friends have taken it upon themselves to "convert" me or cure me, b/c they don't think I'm saved, etc. They quote a lot of scripture to me, usually with raised voices, and it seems often to be an ego driven discussion that always makes me feel defensive and has persuaded me of nothing but how lousy/ego driven friend they are. It doesn't seem to be coming from a place of love.

In fact, come to think of it, I don't think I've ever witnessed any person being converted or moved, by someone "arguing" and using the bible. It's not as if we'd suddenly slap our foreheads and say "Now that you have shown me the errors of my ways and how sinful I am, I am now a believer!! THANK YOU!"

Instead why can't they just be glad I find comfort in my faith, and leave it alone? Also, I have never tried to convert them. And I think there's an anti-Catholic bigotry (under rated imo) and ignorance, as I rarely find their objections to be theologically reasonable. I mean, I do have some issues with the Church, (but they are not deal breakers obviously) but ironcially, the objections these believers raise, are often not even accurate...but I digress

My h is not Catholic (he's Orthodox-close) and it wasn't a deal breaker.
I have to say the one belief system I could not have married into, (other than one that advocates killing me for being an infidel) would have been atheism. I mean, I don't get it. Pigskin, I don't mean to nag you about it, okay?

It would have made me very uncomfortable in part b/c (aside from M being a sacrament), just as a Christian, I think God is part of M & marriage is such a spiritual connection, I'd wonder if my spouse could ever feel as deeply about me or us, if he weren't a believer in God.

The utter purposeless of life through the eyes of an atheist, would have been so depressing to me. The lack of a moral compass that I recognize, would have been disconcerting as well. Yes - I know there are morally sound atheists--but for me, knowing the basis of their ethics is foundational, as is their ability to see when they are rationalizing...
I do worry that non-believers are able to rationalize more since they don't have an "absolute" frame of reference on anything.

And they are not used to their faith/convictions/beliefs being challenged and explored, and perhaps then more firmly held, or changed. IMHO...

Also I wonder about your w's new found faith. How strong is it really? Does she attend Mass, or some type of service regularly? Has she read any C.S. Lewis? Have you?

I'd mention to your w, IF THE SITCH/CONVO ARISES... that there are people in this world who claim their religion justifies murder; so just b/c someone is a "believer" doesn't guarantee morality in their choices. Just makes the self serving nature of their rationalizations a tad harder to debate.

I bet there's a special place after we die, for those who use God to explain their selfishness, and worse..I disagree with those who say "God/religion has been used to justify the murder of millions..." b/c it isn't God or religion that kills, it's hate.

Similarly, it isn't God who wants your w to be with OM...

Yet if you read CS Lewis's "Screwtape Letters" you'll see how likely it is that your w would be in this very sitch. Yes this is predictable! And not hopeless... In that book, an "apprentice devil" is assigned a human soul to try and take to "their side", and he gets his lessons from his uncle, a "master" devil of sorts. (The book is actually witty & an easy read for CS Lewis, who is considered a great theologian AND children's author--"Chronicles of Narnia", etc)....but it makes great points without being too dense).

In the book the uncle devil advises the apprentice to make sure to exploit any doubts or questions the human has about faith/God, and to hone in on any hypocrisies in other humans as evidence that there must NOT be "a God" b/c if there were, there'd be NO questions.....or doubts....or sin....--leaving out the whole free will thing. AND temptation is hugely emphasized...have you read it?

I strongly urge you to consider that book, as well as "Mere Christianity" also by CS Lewis but with an intellectual's approach if that's where she's most comfortable with these topics. Rabbi Kushner wrote "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" and that was moving and sheds light on a lot of the issues that come up, for all of us really.

I do see hope in your sitch but only read the beginning month (several pages of posts) and then the summary and the past week.

What lead to her moving out? And Are you still doing the Retrovaille program? That's a big sign to me. And We found that truly helpful. When we let it slide, IT SHOWS...the most hope I've had for our M since the whole cycle began several years ago, was after that program. We once had a very good strong M and a great connection. Because of that, and other's faith in our M, we worked harder than some couples who maybe never felt quite that way even long ago. But when we attended Retrovaille I just wanted some tools to complete the "piecing" part and to let go of the past. It did that and much more. For us. But we do have to work the program ongoing. B/C one weekend only got us back on track and in touch with what we once had; we glimpsed the couple we once were and thought "OMG, we might be able to get IT back..." but for us, it only stays with us as long as we do the program. It didn't cure us, it's more like a "treatment" we have to keep taking. Make sense?

j-