Beautifully stated, BBJ. Yes, that's what I was trying to get at. And your point that at that moment you might have realized the marriage was unsalvageable shows just how important that "shaking of the etch-a-sketch" is. The marriage cannot go forward if it is mired in the garbage of the past. Before we left Retrouvaille we were asked to strip the beds and leave the linens in the hallway. I imagined that we left 26 years of marital baggage and hard feelings in that hallway, too. I have always wondered how they disposed of all the hard feelings left there on Sundays.
I have always wondered how they disposed of all the hard feelings left there on Sundays.
The Holy Spirit does it.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
So would you place not confessing the A into the same category of not apologizing for an A? Guess you would have to if you didn't confess it, right? I have been wham-blasted for telling some LBS to not expect the WAS to apologize.
I'm not trying to beat "you" up, or anything like that, but I guess it did get me riled a bit when I saw all the positive responses to your posts about not telling the S of the A. In fact, I had to do quite a bit of editing due to sounding way too harsh. I felt like some things I had written on the board a while back about WAW's and their past involment in A's, were seen quite differently by the others here. Maybe some people's POV has changed, IDK. As I recall, it was the "betrayed" spouses that was so against what I had said, so....live & learn.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I can see how you'd be frustrated that it appears as if 2 different standards are being used. However, I think the 2 situations are actually somewhat different.
When my H ended his EA, he was still in withdrawal for some time--for months he still thought she "had done nothing wrong" and missed her, even though (I believe) he never contacted her, and simultaneously felt stupid for ever having become involved with her. Whenever he'd become really sad and withdrawn, I'd wonder if there had been contact. I knew that if there had been and he hadn't told me, our R was doomed because he hadn't learned that a M requires transparency.
When I read what the poster you mentioned wrote about not telling her H that her OM now lived so close and had contacted her, it looked like a slippery slope ... if she once withheld that info from her husband, it would be restarting the secrecy which allowed the affair to flourish in the first place. Besides, her M was still struggling, so voluntarily telling her H would begin to rebuild his trust in her.
Lotus's position is different, partly because both partners had affairs, but mainly because they had ended them before going to Retrouvaille. They both went with the (necessary) attitude that they had chosen to put the marriage first, and were on a much more emotionally connected plane before they made the MUTUAL decision not to ask/tell any more about the affairs. They were therefore a lot further along in their healing journey than in the other case.
At least, that's how it appears to me. I wanted to add, I really admire your kindness, generosity and openness--I know when you're responding to someone that they'll be well taken care of.
I can see how you'd be frustrated that it appears as if 2 different standards are being used. However, I think the 2 situations are actually somewhat different.
When my H ended his EA, he was still in withdrawal for some time--for months he still thought she "had done nothing wrong" and missed her, even though (I believe) he never contacted her, and simultaneously felt stupid for ever having become involved with her. Whenever he'd become really sad and withdrawn, I'd wonder if there had been contact. I knew that if there had been and he hadn't told me, our R was doomed because he hadn't learned that a M requires transparency.
When I read what the poster you mentioned wrote about not telling her H that her OM now lived so close and had contacted her, it looked like a slippery slope ... if she once withheld that info from her husband, it would be restarting the secrecy which allowed the affair to flourish in the first place. Besides, her M was still struggling, so voluntarily telling her H would begin to rebuild his trust in her.
Lotus's position is different, partly because both partners had affairs, but mainly because they had ended them before going to Retrouvaille. They both went with the (necessary) attitude that they had chosen to put the marriage first, and were on a much more emotionally connected plane before they made the MUTUAL decision not to ask/tell any more about the affairs. They were therefore a lot further along in their healing journey than in the other case.
At least, that's how it appears to me. I wanted to add, I really admire your kindness, generosity and openness--I know when you're responding to someone that they'll be well taken care of.
I see it completely different. He was option 2 for 20 years. It did not pan out. So he became option 1ish. As the root cause was never addressed. There is a potential for it to happen again. I find the whole thing rather upsetting. So I need to walk away now. As I feel very emotional about the whole thing.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
So would you place not confessing the A into the same category of not apologizing for an A? Guess you would have to if you didn't confess it, right?
I don't think that is what anyone said.
If there was a A and it was known there is the need for forgiveness and a apology. There is a reason when people are in ICU they withold emotional harm from them. If asked it should be honestly answered but don't throw gas on the fire. Retro sounds like maritial ICU to me.
I see the damage it could possibly do if found out later. So are we forgiving the person or their behavior? Or is it possible to seperate the two? An affair is definetly a emotional wound that is tough to heal.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I think Coach has described it well, it is ICU for a marriage. The difference is the difference that BobbiJo talked about, the question of salvageability of the marriage. Where spouses are willing to forgive, there can be reconciliation. Where spouses can't forgive, the prognosis is not good. What's important is not the laundry list of complaints and faults. What is important is the willingness to leave it behind.
My husband's complaints about me did not include me being off in dreamland. He had specific things that he was angry about, and had been angry about for 25 years. And the things that I was angry about were more important to me than his affair, too. We forgave and let it go. As my friend points out, that is why we are a "model couple" because many people either couldn't or wouldn't do that. But that is what it takes.
