how do i keep my hope alive?

[trytryagain]

You mentioned the drugs/alcohol thing. Is it possible his moodiness could be a side-effect?

hmmmm...i don't really know, but i don't think so. he smoked every day anyway, and he drank pretty regularly anyway, so i don't know how those would be changing his mood NOW.

seems to me that his moodiness is more of a side effect of no longer knowing what he wants or what he should do, and of living alone surrounded by boxes he hasn't unpacked.

[talia]

TTA,
Wise words from Pearl... Heed them!!


T

[trytryagain]

thanks, talia and pearl. i know i need to look for signs of truth in his WORDS by watching his ACTIONS. i'm thrilled that he sought the help of an IC on his own, without any pushing from me, and i'm doing my best to stand back and give him all the space he needs.

i'm giving MYSELF some space as well, and looking forward to a week long service trip to new orleans in a few weeks. told the H about my trip and he said he was excited but sad (not sure why), and that i'd always had such a big heart and desire to give back. those are definitely good points about me, and i'm trying to focus more on those good things and bring them out in myself more.

it's very hard to not come to expect anything from someone who you've vowed your life to, though, isn't it? i guess i should see his almost daily contact as a sign of something i'm doing right instead of focusing so much on what he's saying in his emails. at least he's emailing, right?

thanks for trying to help keep me on track. it can be a full time job!

[Onthemountaintop]

i know i need to look for signs of truth in his WORDS by watching his ACTIONS.

I'd offer that it isn't the truth you might need to look for but rather aconfirmation of the truth. Michelle's book talked about saying I love you - that replying to it when you don't feel it isn't very easy. I think when he's saying he misses you and that he loves you, his crying, texting, meeting you, going to an IC, walking in the snow (etc) is the action that confirmed his love. It doesn't mean that you or he has done enough of changing what didn't work and meeting your goals to make the 50 year anniversary.

You wouldn't have gotten there in your R if you tuned him out.

He might be sad because he's feeling he misses you. If he wanted to give separation papers or something, or if he wanted more space cause you were pursuing, he wouldn't be sad, he'd be mad. That is where you've done great trying to better understand the man you want to be with in a happy M. It is also possible that he is also feeling proud of you, while being worried about your financial situation, or that you might be running away from him.

I disagree with the idea that you should not spend a bit of time understanding him. If people didn't try to understand someone's intentions and feelings, we'd have to rely on them telling us, which he (and I) are not always able to do. If we ONLY judged someone's actions, where would we get hope from?

Think of the Muslim/Christian belief in prophets like Moses. Aren't we told time and time again about what they and the "bad guys" thought, not just what they did? Yet for a spouse, we say, "prove it"?

Be cautious, don't plan on words alone, that makes a lot of sense. If there was a trust issue, be more cautious. But try to "mind read" because he's ADHD and going to forget to say something he thought you knew. Even better, do it because it is just the right thing to do when you are trying to show love. That doesn't mean ignore the facts, or jump into a situation on hope alone.

The person keeping herself on track the most is you. You ask questions. You choose your direction. You accept the benefits, and the consequences of them, too.

[trytryagain]

OTM it's funny you said the word proud. i just got a long email from my H, saying he was proud of how well i was handling things and how i was working on myself and that he was jealous that he hadn't found the strength to do the same. he also said part of his sadness came from the fact that he'd always been so proud of the volunteer work i do and he said it hurts him to be unable to support me in doing something as big as this trip i'm taking. that he wants to be there for me but he knows he's not there yet.

i know he misses me, he tells me that when i see him and he's told me in emails. he's never been mad and he's never expressed anything other than sadness, loss, and hopelessness, so i see what you're saying about how i'm taking the right steps - because if i weren't, he wouldn't be so sad and upset, he'd be angry and aloof.

he also said his new IC told him to "tread lightly" in his interactions with me. that she said it was good we were talking and that he'd seen me, but that to not get ahead of the real goal, which is to decide what he truly wants and to commit himself to it, 100%. he's taken responsibility for initiating the breakups we've endured over the last 5 years - something i never thought he would do - and said he needs to understand the cycle and his "freight train nature" which leads him to feel the need to jump ship. i don't know how i feel about his counselor telling him to take it easy...i KNOW taking it easy is the right thing to do, but i guess i'm just fearful that she may eventually say, you need to not talk to her at all.

for me the hardest part of all of this is loving him so immensely and trying to understand more about him and the way he thinks while simultaneously letting him go with both hands and not having him as my constant companion right now. i guess i just want him to know that i'm feeling the same way he's feeling. i'm also lonely and sad and i miss him every minute. i keep myself occupied and i make improvements and i do things for myself and that all feels good, but at the same time i'm also sad to see him so confused, lonely and upset - even though he essentially did this to himself. this was his decision and i know i have to let him deal with the consequences and learn and grow from them. i just hope that learning and growing doesn't extend in a direction away from our M.

but i guess everyone here wants that...

[Onthemountaintop]

he also said his new IC told him to "tread lightly" in his interactions with me. that she said it was good we were talking and that he'd seen me, but that to not get ahead of the real goal, which is to decide what he truly wants and to commit himself to it, 100%.

My IC last night told me that from what I had told her (+she was our MC last year), my W would likely not be changing very quickly, if at all. That would mean I would need to keep making concessions, not compromises as in many areas of disagreement between W & I, W feels that movement from her POV is giving up (so she doesn't). I didn't tell my W when she asked how the IC went, but today I did. I made sure not to make it sound so bleak. I was a bit upset to hear my IC tell me that basically I shouldn't live on maybe, because I found people can do much more than expected with enough motivation. I think even if the IC is wrong, I needed to hear that.

Perhaps what your H IC is noticing is that his emotional releases seem very powerful and that a R takes some self-control.

sad to see him so confused, lonely and upset - even though he essentially did this to himself. this was his decision and i know i have to let him deal with the consequences and learn and grow from them. i just hope that learning and growing doesn't extend in a direction away from our M.

If it did, wouldn't it be better than him deciding he made a mistake 5 years a kid or two later? Look back at the part about you knowing he needs to deal with consequence. He does. We all do. It is part of being a responsible man/wife.

When I talked to my W today about the IC, I told her I would be monologing so we didn't get into a discussion about the content. I began with positive, the fact that I might be starting to feel some love. Then I said that it might be fear of the consequences, too. I could feel the pain in her as we talked that you seem to be feeling. If it matters, I think your H feels just as bad, or much worse, about the pain you are going through. Still, do you want a lifetime marriage with someone committed or enternally unsure?

[trytryagain]

wow. H just sent me a message that all he can see when he closes his eyes is his W and asked if he could call me when he got home from his work event. he did text me a few times while he was at the event, which is not something he would have done normally, especially at a work function.

it was his first session with this new IC yesterday, and she just thinks things shouldn't be too heavy between us while he's trying to figure out why he reacts to things the way he does and find some other answers for herself. i can respect that, but then, as my sister points out, doesn't that put things on HIS terms? i know i'm partly responsible for what happens from here forward, but if i want to work on and save our M, despite GAL and improving myself, doesn't that still put the ball in his court to decide if/when he wants to work on this?

[Onthemountaintop]

I would love to have someone give me a page number from any of Michelle or others' books that say that working on the marriage means that it has to be on our terms - that we need to be in control.

For every disease, there is a cure. The cures can't all be the same and the wrong cure for the disease can kill.

Yes, you need to make your decisions about your life. So what if he's directing right now? As long as you don't let him direct you where you don't accept going, why not?

My understanding, which could be wrong, is that GAL is about moving on and not becoming the person that no one could love, and instead becoming someone that you can love. If you can't love you, then how can someone else? I do not believe that GAL is about being in control.

Remember TTA, you've only been really working on this in a different way than the past for a month. You ARE GAL just fine even though he's been driving for much of this time.

For me, if I can't get myself to a place I feel close to my W, how much work, IC, sex, talk, games, etc, will get me to go there? I have to want to. So does your H.

Side note: choosing to give him the time he needs is a choice of yours, isn't it? So who really has the ball?

[trytryagain]

thanks, OTM. i am certainly directing where my life is going right now and making choices and improvements that are good for ME. but it's still hard to feel like you're in the passenger seat sometimes.

i did chose to talk to him last night. we ended up on the phone until 2 in the morning. i'm not a big phone person, and i can easily say that was the longest phone conversation he and i have ever had. i think it's good he reached out to me and at one point he even said "well, who else would i talk to about all this stuff?" which made me feel good in that he still values me as a friend and confidant. we really had a wonderful conversation, we talked a lot about things his IC talked to him about, and i'm seeing that for once he's trying to get to the real root of some of the issues that have driven us to split before. i'm taking these things as signs of his love, that he's working to make the right choices for the right reasons.

so. today i'm hopeful. he asked me if we could have dinner tonight and i do have plans with a girlfriend but told him if that falls through that dinner would be nice. it's weird but i almost felt like last night we connected in a way that we really haven't before. we were so honest with each other and he really told me what was going on in his head. so that was nice. i did tell him that i'm glad he feels like he can trust me to talk to me about what's going on, because you'd kind of think i'd be the one person he wouldn't want to talk to about this.

i do still have plans to move tomorrow, to a cute new apartment one floor up from where i am now. i leave for my service trip in 2 weeks, and i know my H is very proud that i'm able to find it within myself to help others at a time when i need help, too. for me, though, i kind of feel that helping others is a way to help myself and to heal the hurt i'm feeling.

sorry if this is rambling and doesn't have a real point. i just had a really good conversation with my H and am feeling a little all over the place. trying to keep it cool...but he called me baby on the phone last night, which i haven't heard out of him in over a month. THAT felt good!

[trytryagain]

by the way, i know i should not jump to believe every word he says. but i also feel like he backs up saying "i love you" with seeing his IC to work out some issues, or taking the time to text me while he's at a work event, or ask me to dinner so he can see me.

no expectations, right?