My marriage was saved, but not by DB. I read the book, but I didn't do it that way. I don't think my H cared about details of affairs from me, and I wasn't interested in starting a conversation like that either. It didn't matter; we were even. He had cheated, I had cheated, but we both decided to be nice to each other and save the marriage. The other people and what went on with them didn't matter. One of the things that you both learn at Retrouvaille is - the past is the past, let it go. You can make your present nice; you can build your future. The bad of the past is forgotten.
You are right there...I remember writing about choosing to forgive and let go of the past. I said it felt like I had been dragging this anchor around with me and finally I could release it and let it sink to the bottom of the ocean, freeing myself. Forgiveness was more about freeing myself than really letting the other person 'off the hook'...
Glad to hear things are still going well, Lotus. Have you guys gotten any snow out of this crazy weather pattern??
That is a great image! Yes, it is like an anchor. There were things about the past that we both had trouble forgiving, but I think it was more personality-wise rather than affairs. We both came pretty late to marriage, I was 26, he was 36, so we didn't start off as virgins. We both had people in our pasts, and it was those same people who re-occurred in our affairs. The stuff we had trouble forgiving was in the treatment of each other over 27 years - mainly, things that had been said. But, right now, I can't remember it. That's the good thing about forgiving.
No, I live pretty far south in Florida. We've had a lot of cold nights, a few cold days, but no snow. Wait, they did say they got some sleet in early Jan. the weekend that I went on a cruise.
Thank you for sharing your story, Lotus. It's always good to hear SUCCESS stories!
Puppy
Is this the same man who about flipped when I suggested that another poster not mention to her LBH that her former OM called her out of the blue....and was working down the street from where they lived? As I recall, I was the "only" one who took that POV (protecting the LBH) and was told by the others that it was seen as untruthful. Now it is a success story! Hummmmmm......interesting.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Lotus, thanks for starting a thread. Out of all the good things I've heard about Retrovaille I have never heard that they encourage people to withhold things from the past....especially affairs. I guess I am in shock since it is a Christian M retreat. (I'm not Catholic either, so I have a hard time understanding.)
Anyway, I wanted to read your story and I am glad you took time to post it. I had wondered if you were the LBS based on a few of the posts I had read from you.....so I was surprised.
May I ask if you have felt that you have had to live with any guilt of the PA and did the OM ever contact you again?
I am glad that you and your H are doing well and I hope your M last many more years.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
To Sandi and all the others who have questioned the stand against further revelations of infidelity or other transgressions in the midst of the Retrouvaille weekend.
I don't think that Retrouvaille's stand is against all truthful confessions. I think what they were saying is, "You are here because you know you have problems in your marriage. Both spouses are aware of problems big enough to put you on the brink of divorce. Now, no new revelations at this time. Work with where you are; heal the relationship from the strikes that you already have against it."
It was certainly not a "have all the adultery you want in the future and don't confess to it because we frown on confessing" message. Deep, Puppy, Goldey, VH, BBJ, and anyone else who has been to the weekend, would you agree?
As for unresolved feelings of guilt for having a PA, I can't say that I spend any time thinking about it anymore. I still feel ashamed of being stupid and fogged out in love with someone who was mainly a figment of my imagination. The relationship I thought I had with OM was very one-sided. I expect he kept it going to feel that he was not being a hen-pecked husband to his wife. But he was never going to drop his wife and come rescue me in a white Porsche (updated imagery). I was mooning over a dream.
Lotus - thank you for sharing. You have chimed in here and there on my sitch with sound advice and really have made me think a ton about Retrouvaille...if I ever get my W to a point of working on our R/M. I like the idea of Lotus' Lounge.
M39 W41 Two children WAW bomb dropped 11/7/09 Piecing Aug 10 - Nov 10 No longer piecing...Nov 10 Separation Jan 11 EA ends again Feb 11 Piecing attempt #2, Mar 11
This is THE defining point in your marriage. Like BC/AD, there would be "before retro" and "after retro". In terms of forgiveness in particular. Forgiveness is a choice. Love is a decision.
My take-away was that, during that weekend, I chose to forgive my Husband for all the hurt he caused me and damage he inflicted on our marriage. That includes reasonable hurts (infidelity) and some things that are basically personality differences (he takes forever in the shower and it drives me crazy) that don't really require 'forgiveness' per se, but a letting go of our own sense of being 'wronged'.
I felt that the forgiveness was much more for me than it was my spouse, really. It allowed me to be free of thoughts that ate up my days and only hurt me. I mean honestly, if I am wallowing in self-pity all afternoon re-imagining my H with his OW, who is really hurting? Me, not him! But I digress...
The segment on forgiveness said, to me, that from this point on, the past is the past. I am not going to dwell on it, pester my husband about it, throw it in his face, etc etc.
Sometimes I think people (me included) keep the infidelity or other wrong of our spouse as a trump card. Then whenever I am losing an argument with him or feel threatened for whatever reason, I can break out the trump card, "Yeah? Well the house may not be spotless but at least I wasn't out sleeping with someone!"
The whole 'blank slate' philosophy comes to mind. We were 'shaking the etch-a-sketch' of our marriage up to that point. Not saying it was ok to commit the same transgressions going forward. Not at all. But saying we were letting go of all the old ones because they prevented us from DECIDING to love the other person freely, without that worry creeping into the back of our minds.
I would say that is when I knew my M was probably not salvageable. There was a question asked, "Do you choose to forgive your spouse?" My H said, "I don't know if I can." A later question was "DO you accept your spouse as they are?" Again he said, "I don't know if I can."
Anyway back to the point, the forgiveness is IMO to free yourself from carrying the burden of resentment, anger, and self-pity, all of which stand between you and true intimacy with your spouse.
Is this the same man who about flipped when I suggested that another poster not mention to her LBH that her former OM called her out of the blue....and was working down the street from where they lived? As I recall, I was the "only" one who took that POV (protecting the LBH) and was told by the others that it was seen as untruthful. Now it is a success story! Hummmmmm......interesting.