No longer "stuck808". Now my name is Bond. "MrBond

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Damn, Bond. That was . . . inspirational.



Puppy

[MrBond]

Thanks Puppy.

I'm ready for that martini now!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Shaken, not stirred.

[25yearsmlc]

NH,

I read your sitch and I would have put a stop to that one right off the bat.

In my sitch, the A was in the past, but it's what stirred all of this in the first place. My W told me she was leaving me for the OM. I told her it was inappropriate considering he was her boss and that if she continued to see him, that I would take custody of the kids. I immediately kicked her out of the house that day.

Like your W, my W is a nurse and she had gotten into an EA with the doctor she works with.

It comes down to laying a boundary and establishing a consequence. My W was like yours whereby she was flaunting around the fact that this was her decision and there was nothing I could do about it. She was right. All I could do was live how I wanted to.

So with the help of so many on here, I GAl'd and detached. Well or detached as best I could. I continued to work on me and did the things I wanted to do. During the interactions she and I did have, she was just downright nasty.

I would validate as much as I could, but then there came a time when she wasn't changing her tone, so when she went off on her tirades, I would hold my hand up and hit her with a truth dart. I would just tell her what the truth is of whatever she was saying and then walk away. Not angry, just stating the truth.

Oh she got mad. She threw tantrums. But I held firm. In time, she softened and the more I stood up to her when I felt she was being unreasonable, the nicer she became towards me.

It all comes down to personal accountability. Right now your W doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions. Deep down inside, she may know what she's doing is wrong, but she's going to do it anyway. There's nothing you can do about that. But what you can do is control how you are being treated and your outlook.

There is no timeline. I've been at this for just about 2 years. Right now things are just starting to get a little better. Do I think we are going to get back together? Who knows? I'm not thinking about that.

Think if it like a rock in raging surf. Your W's actions are like an uncontrollable surf. You can either get swept up in them or learn to navigate the dangerous waters until you get to an area of calm.

Establish what your boundaries are. Write them down. You may not think you have any leverage in this, but you do. Your leverage is YOUR morals, beliefs. She has no right to trample on them any more than you can trample on hers. She'll goad you into an argument to create drama and justify what she's doing. She needs justification. Don't fall for it.

Live for you. Not her.

That's all well and good. But Bond is not reconciled yet so the story isn't finished....sorry Bond, but it's "Truth" and until we know what really works in a sitch I think your last line is the one to go with..."live for you"...

(Bond, I'm shocked that an MD would threaten you at work. He could lose a whole lot...do you all work in the same hospital? WTH?)


And NH, I will have to read your thread so I can post there. But obviously one thing is true, (obvious to ME anyhow...) any A from the past is past and has passed and is never to be brought up again IF A RECONCILIATION IS HAPPENING...what possible good can come of bringing it up again?
You won't ever ever agree on the past as we all have different "scorecards" and perspectives. What truly matters is now, and "From this day forward" and seeing your future in similar ways...

I think the main fear of any WAS with an A, is that they cannot overcome their mistake and by the LBSer bringing it up, it proves the WAS was "right" to assume the m was over and beyond repair (or worse, that the LBSer is vindictive and deserved being cheated on...)

The LBSer has a tough path to follow but if being happy and married is the goal (and not 'being right") then you have to forgive and let go of the past AND keep the road home, paved and smooth. It'll already be hard to come back from an A anyhow...It really is, and the more people that know about it, the harder it is. THey'll want to be "Right" too, so they'll justify the A if they are forced to, so don't force that, or that leaves you as a permanent LBSer...

But again, I don't know your individ sitch. I just know that if my h had tried that stuff on me, I'd have bolted and I do think a lot of the M's that end b/c of an A, are really ending b/c the LBSer cannot forgive OR, OR the WAS thinks the LBSer won't forgive and they give up, saying "too much damage has been done, easier to just start fresh elsewhere, etc" and they don't want to be punished the rest of their lives....

I'll read your thread when I get a chance but I hope this part was clear.
j-

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks 25yearsmlc.

I think I mentioned that there was a conversation my W and I had (before the bomb) if we fantasized about anyone else while we had sex. This was just a casual conversation and not because we were worried about anything. I mentioned a friend of mine and she said her boss. It was probably about a year prior to the A.

I stand by my opinion of that being really UNhelpful questioning...really...

But anyhow, you're right that it's all water under the bridge. The part that I'm at now is if I should start pulling away more. She's been receptive to the times that we have been going out and have been keeping the times light and fun. I really don't get the feeling that she's stringing me along until she finds someone else.

I don't think she's stringing you along...I think she's confused and a bit "wacky" although i'm not clinically qualifed to assess...seems that being a leader, in a healthy manly way without being a jerk, would be helpful. I meant that when I said to keep moving on....not to leave her, per se. But to not "need" her...

Since all this happened she did seem to draw closer, so I don't know if pulling away is the right way to go right now. That's what's causing my "paralysis" right now. I don't know if I should continue to be the supportive person I am now to her or detach more and have her figure things out on her own. She seems to need some kind of guidance and I know it's not my "job" but in a way it is because she is still my W.

I think for now I'm going to continue to GAL and give her the space she needs to figure things out, but every now and then when we are together, give her a nudge in the right direction (i.e. me being the confident, strong, supportive male). Show her that I'm the better choice. And if she's not attracted, that's her choice. Others already are.

THis makes sense to me.
j-

[MrBond]

25yearsmlc,

"That's all well and good. But Bond is not reconciled yet so the story isn't finished....sorry Bond, but it's "Truth" and until we know what really works in a sitch I think your last line is the one to go with..."live for you"..."

That is true and I don't think I was trying to get him to copy me per se, but it seemed like he really needed to establish some kind of boundary with a consequence in his sitch.

Thanks again on my sitch. yeah the OM is an MD. I don't even work for the hospital, but for another company. His pastor friend is head of a prominent non-profit organization and is in charge of a church. That's why I thought they were idiots because if I lost my job and had nothing, if I wanted to, I could have made things more difficult for them. Crazy times I tell you. Plus anyone who would hold a grudge about I don't know what, for 2 years and go behind my back to do all that is beyond my understanding.

Although I wouldn't go so far as to call my wife "wacky" (that's for the OM), I would say that she doesn't know how to cope with bad situations like most people do. She's used to running away from things that are uncomfortable. So knowing that is why I've been trying to make things comfortable for her and get her trust and openness back.

But I've spent too much time talking about her as it is. Tonight I'm hitting the gym and getting down with a good book since I don't have my kids tonight. Then Friday I'm going over to my friend's house for a party.

[25yearsmlc]

Bond,
Don't get offended by the term "wacky"...to me, it beats saying she's clinically depressed, let alone has been for how long now?

But as I also said, I'm not qualified to assess her medically. Is she seeing a c for her stuff or is it one of those "if you are depressed, leave" types? Is she on medication?

Also, what exactly do you feel you had to work on for yourself, or rather, what was your role in all this to begin with, that you feel would be different now? I'm babbling but trying to ask you, why would your m to her now, be better than before? WHat is diff about you? If this is all about her (and I agree that it's not) then you're stuck. But if you have some issues you have resolved or are being worked on, and then, does she know?

What's your best argument for why things would be better and diff now, than they were before?

Just thinking if we all can't answer that, then we're doing this backwards...
j-

[MrBond]

25yearsmlc,

Oh I know you don't mean "wacky" in that sense. I really think the depression happened after the birth of each of the kids. She had a low point after our first D was born. She casually mentioned that she could see herself as a single parent. At that time I asked her why and she said she wasn't sure. She never brought it up again, so I just thought it was an offhand comment. That was 5 years ago. Then after the birth of our second D, she started her EA. I think it grew just before she even turned 1.

So I think it is hormonal or maybe a sign of post-partum, but she won't get help because she doesn't feel there's anything wrong with her.

The biggest thing for me was probably not listening to her more. I tended to try and convince her to do things that maybe she wasn't willing to do. Of course, she could have told me she didn't want to do these things, but she held it all in.

She's the type that would get angry at me about something but wouldn't tell me until a couple of days later. By then I'd have to figure out what she was talking about. There was alot of mind reading on my part because she generally didn't like conflict or to say when something bothered her. Heck I thought we were pretty happy up until she dropped the bomb. I mean she initiated sex, we had the usual casual talks, etc. Then when she dropped the bomb, even though we lived together, she stopped sex cold turkey, was nasty, angry all the time, mood swings, etc.

At first I figured it was because of the OM, which I'm sure was what started it. But he's not really in the picture any more relationship wise and she still gets into these bouts of extreme mood swings.

So when she does open up, I engage more than I used to. Aside from that, I've never really been out of shape, but I've been working out more because of all my free time. I've been doing little side jobs here and there and am a pretty good cook on the side. I've always been the one to whom my friends would go to when they needed advice. When I thought my W was pulling away, I would tell her that it's ironic that everyone feels they can come to me to talk except for her.

[Gardener]

Great post, MrB.
And a good name change. I like it and the rationale behind it.
Congrats.

[25yearsmlc]

Bond,

You sound like a good guy, okay? But your post about the changes you have made left me sort of...dissatisfied. I realize we don't all need in depth analysis, or full neurological work ups, etc. But your take on the M sitch and your role in it was pretty superficial and didn't say much about a truly inward look on your part. In fact it was all about her flaws and insecurities and things she has to work on and the question was solely aimed at you and what you are doing differently....I mean, you said that you cook pretty well and are in good shape...well, that's nice and all. But really, I'm sure most women don't leave their h's because they aren't gourmet chefs, and while being in shape IS a cool thing that keeps a guy attracting, and attractive, it's also only skin deep.

So From my point of view, the ONE thing I figured I could control in MY whole sitch was how I behaved and what I learned. I felt that if I had been the best w I could be and my h still left me, then life truly sucks b/c wth? I mean, it's one thing to say "I did my best and leave the rest" but that means it could always happen anytime...WHEREAS if I had made some mistakes I could correct, THANK GOD b/c that is something I could control and therefore I worked my butt off trying to improve so that no matter what happened with my h and I, I knew I would be a better person/partner for life for someone b/c I CHANGED AND GREW.... I was able to say truthfully to my h, "If I had it to do over again, I'd do 'X' and 'Y' differently b/c I've changed..." and that helped both of us know that we would not go for round 2 of the "Same old, same old..." and yet hope things worked out differently...doesn't work that way. Know what I mean? So anyhow, yeah, I say take a brave look inside and DIG...

See, I think you kind of made yourself out to be fairly flawless....as in "what's to work on"? I don't think that will help you much here b/c it seems you're saying you "tweaked a thing or two" and so, if SHE doesn't fix herself, too bad, b/c M to you would be the same pretty much...so therefore, what's the reason she should expect things to be better??? And isn't it scary to think it's all in her hands then as to whether you two get back together b/c if she does not change, it's over b/c you were already about as good as you get....???
Here are some things I also wonder...

How do you two relate spiritually? Do you have much in common in hobbies or work or outlook? What would SHE SAY she wishes were different about you? Or about your work, or your approach to life? Are you a good listener? Do you try to fix things, or are you supportive to her, in her eyes?

Do you two connect on your visions of the future? How about child rearing? Would your wife describe you as (does NOT matter if it's true-we're talking about her perceptions and yours, not necessarily "reality")--"controlling" or negative? Artsy or practical? Politically do you have much in common?
How about finances? Do you have a temper? Do you apologize when you are wrong and if so, how long does it take you and do you do it begrudgingly?

Are you forgiving? Is she? How is that modelled inside your M? Are you interested in the same things? How do you feel about each other's friends?
There, that's enough for now.

I'm asking all this b/c I think this is more likely to result in a long term good outcome if we all dig deep enough to really look at ourselves and take a moral inventory, and then commit to improving as much as possible as people individually and therefore also, as part of a couple...and from that post you wrote, I didn't feel that you were doing that...but hey, it's just my take on it and jmho.

j-