Youve grown so much over night. Its amazing how throwing your stuff out here and bashing it around a bit with a few folks chipping in you get a realisation of what is really happening.
We need to find ways that you can tell him to back off and behave but still look charming, sexy and sassy!
He is pushing to test you all the time, it really is his problem, his frustration that you are getting on with things and he is still stuck being purile, spoilt, spiteful and bossy!
How do you get to bring topics to the table at MC, does the C set the topics or can you say you want to discuss blah blah at the next one.. Was thinking along the lines of being a bit stronger with how you deal with his nasty behaviour. Boundary setting. Maybe you have to be a bit brave with this one, only you know how easily he could walk, personally he hasnt gone yet, and he hasnt processed the D and he is still coming back and staying, thats a man not done yet, but trying to see if he can manipulate you into being the sorta wife he wants!
When you bait me YOU are being disrespectful of MY changes and it MAKES ME not want to spend time with YOU!
When you bait me YOU are being disrespectful of YOUR SONS MOTHER and I cant accept that if YOU dont stop I will ask you to leave.
Perhaps we could ask one of the vets to have a look over some boundaries you want to set, have a go at some of your own and we'll see who we can rope in to have a look at them!
____________________________
W 47 H 47 M 24 T 30
Once lost but now found and happily married again!
"I'm sorry you feel that way. We don't have to hold the same opinions to like each other and get along." or "I'm not going to be made fun of for making positive changes." Or in the case of the cat situation: "I'm sorry your feelings are still hurt from the past." just call it out for what it is? whispering your hurt and fear conspiratorially to a cat? if you reframe his "jokes" as hurt maybe he'll own up to weakness/trust issues with you or hide them and not bring them up in a hurtful manner because he's embarrassed to be thinking his trust paranoia out loud. Like his "issues" are showing so he better solve them.
I agree when Freckles said this: "I think he's threatened by your changes. If you were giving it right back to him, he could keep blaming you for how he acts. Like a "freak-out" from you gives him justification to treat you like that. Now that you aren't doing those things, and if you keep not doing those things, he's not going to be able to ignore that he's the one still acting like an @ss while you're calm and rational."
The fact is it's getting time to put up or shut up in your R. Is he coming back or not? Is he willing to look his own patterns and weaknesses in the face and at least try to fix them instead of blaming others for his own insecurities, fears, and emotions? He may not be ready for any of the above.
Keeping a fight and anger going allows him to dump his wife, dump his child, and blame you for the dumping. Maybe he won't change or do the work to fix himself and doesn't want to feel guilty for leaving. He wants to stay the same and get to stay in R. Or stay the same and leave and blame YOU for it when it was him who was stuck in his personal growth all along.
No, you're definitely not overreacting or blowing things out of proportion. That whole cat thing is passive aggressive verbal abuse. Does he ever do stuff like that using your son instead?
Ugh. If he did crap like that on the phone, I'd say to give him a warning that if he talks like that to you again, you'll be hanging up and then do it. But when he's in the house, it's kind of hard to hang up on him... Brandnewday's H was pretty cruel/verbally abusive to her, but that was on the phone because he was on the opposite coast at the time. Have you ever posted on the MLC forum? It might be worth poking your head there for some ideas on setting boundaries without making him escalate. Something has got to give with this though.
It worries me that your little guy is/will be caught in the middle of this or that your H may turn him into the cat confidant. That would be harming your R with your S (because eventually he'd start talking to Mom like she was an unstable idiot too) and be all out war, IMO.
But like I said before, your H isn't likely to be all rainbows and sunshine to you if you tell him to stick it and call off MC and any hope of R either. Because of S you'll have to deal with him anyway so you probably have more influence in taming him under the guise of working things out, even if your goals for that change.
When he starts going off on your "freak-outs" or other things you've changed, just remind yourself that you used to pee and crap your pants too, but (presumably ) you don't do that anymore either so his fixation on those things is as ridiculous as him "teasing" you for that. Just trying to think of things to make his words not hurt you so much while we figure out how to get him to shut the hell up with his spewing.
The frying pan offer still stands?
Last edited by Freckle6; 02/17/1001:01 PM.
Me38,H:38,S:7 Married:6/99 Bomb:7/04 Sep.:5/05 D Filed:3/08;Final 1/10 Piecing:11/09 H moved back:09/10 Current thread: http://tiny.cc/htcty
I also wanted to tell you that my H has once said something similar about being angry that my changes were "brought about" by the separation (implying that because I "made him" come down on me brutally, which he supposedly didn't want to do, this "fixed" something). It's not exactly what your H is saying, but it's a similar mindset so I wanted to share it.
Another time H said something that I thought sounded like he thought any changes in me, if they exist (!?!), were maintained by his distance (just like your H said). I told him recently that there were boundaries we needed to set and neither of us set them because we didn't know what they were and personal issues we both needed to deal with, and that didn't mean that we ever needed to D to "fix the relationship" so I was tired of hearing that mindset. We were both avoiding change and engaging in pointless conflict instead because we didn't know any better. D wasn't the solution. Work was and also reaching out for C help. At times I was resistant to that. At times he was. In-between we had a lot of fun and forgot about it until the stress piled on from life and blew down the house of cards.
But if my H wants to think the "smackdown" he gave me was the "only" way, what can I do about it? Nothing. I'm not going to argue that point or listen to it too often. I think he knows that isn't true but feels guilt and that helps him with his guilt to say "look at what you made me do to you and us." And I actually don't care if he thinks that. I'm tired of staring into the past. His opinions about the past are fine and he's certainly entitled to them. I truly only care about what is happening today and in the future that's positive.
Maybe in MC one day the topic of forgiveness should be brought up. How does one go about forgiving? There are good books on this. You can learn to forgive yourself and him. And he can learn to forgive you, anyone in his past, and himself. This could be part of his continuing anger and anxiety issue. Learning how to forgive is something a lot of parents don't teach or model for their children. He may not know.
OH my, ladies, you are the best friends - and I haven't even met you face to face! I'm ashamed to share this anywhere else (except my best friend). Thank you for sticking by me - I'm going to take this advice very seriously! First of all, I think you're all correct - he must feel threatened that I AM changing and he can't really blame me anymore! If not, he's totally blind and there's nothing I can do but wait. I will think over a list of responses, post them here, and ask for your wise advise. Thank you~! rr22 0- I think you are right, I need more of the "shut up or put up" feeling toward H. I have been trying to follow DB principals by "listening/validating" / "having patience" / "doing 180s" all that, but perhaps I am letting him get away with too much? It's hard to get that he is really blaming me so he doesn't have to own his part. If I can get this, I can be a lot stronger! He really does blame me - and not to say he doesn't have a lot to be angry about. But why hide his head in the sand? Why provoke me? I'm trying hard not to provoke him - he says he "notices" but "doesn't trust" my changes. Time I held the same belief of him!
My IC (same guy that's our MC) said that I should hang up on H when he's abusive. I've had some success with hang up/walk away with his overt behavior, but this subtle stuff, does it deserve the same? I could do it without reactions...just up and walk out.
Yes, sadly, there has been some jabs through S, although not often. He makes these jokes ("mom is crazy", "I'm not going to take forever with breakfast, LIKE MOM DOES" ETC) with S and gets him laughing at me. I assume this is what his dad did to his mom.
I guess it's time I grow a pair and bring this up in MC.
Freckle, your response is the winner! LOLOL "I used to pee and crap my pants too but I out grew that." I love it. Yes, frying pan needed, please.
rr22 - I believe H thinks "smackdown" is deserved too. So maybe I can just go along with him - take the charge out of his nastiness. "yep, I used to be that way." Then his punishment is not effective.
Also I am going to bring up forgiveness. I'm ready for some. LR - you're right, I need confident sexy sassy responses - not my forte, obviously! Ok, more later.
And yes you all are. First test - tonight. H is coming over and I will be here with him and S. Ugh. Wish me luck! Umbrella in had to shelter me and S from those bird droppings!
H4L, I called H on his bird droppings this morning. I was calm and quiet but he crossed a line and he backed off when I called him on it. I think it has to come from a place of valuing oneself enough to not tolerate stuff. But then not fighting back either. I haven't been very good at that...in our M I put up with a lot of H cutting me down, and reacting defensively rather than assertively.
Can you draw up strength *and* love when your H does stuff like that, and let them both guide you?
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
) you don't do that anymore either so his fixation on those things is as ridiculous as him "teasing" you for that. Just trying to think of things to make his words not hurt you so much while we figure out how to get him to shut the hell up with his spewing.