Please Advise!!!! I Could Use Some HELP

[Allen A]

We had a two hour talk over coffee and I wanted to really "LISTEN" instead of being selfish and only realizing my own needs and pain. He talked a lot about the stress on his job and some of the difficulties he's had with his truck.

I listened and for once I realized that I had NEVER in the past really listened to how his day went or took the time to understand how he feels. In some ways I guess I was always self-absorbed and self-centered during the marriage. I realize how this could be painful over time for him.

Everyone in a r makes some selfish mistakes.. learning to love someone long term means learning to give without expecting anything in return.. flings and affairs are selfish.. you take and you take.. every ounce you give you expect it back inch for inch...

You need to understand that an affair is an ENTIRELY different animal from a conventional relationship... don't even CALL your affair a relationship, call a spade a spade, it was an affair... you are a married woman and you secretly slept with a man who was NOT your husband.. that's not a relationship, its an AFFAIR

An affair is to a Romantic Relationship what Stalking is to Dating

Let me repeat that, an affair is the same sleazy level that stalking is...

When you have a date, its romantic

When you have an affair its CREEPY

Affairs are founded on lies, secret hurts, and emotional vulnerability... its NOT beautiful or romantic.. its a completely different activity...

People having affairs have a very similar delusion that STALKERS have

Stalkers sneak around in secret terrorizing a person or person's that do NOT want them around...

Stalkers are deluded and think they are in LOVE

Stalkers lie and hide in the dark.. much like people having affairs..

Its a SICKNESS.. its not romantic..

I wish i had more time to make a better worded comparison, maybe puppy has something to offer here.. I really would like to write up a full page comparing the two that people can refer to.. just don't have the content at the moment..i think there's enough here for you to get it

I was careful NOT to bring up "R" but focus on how we were both feeling without yelling and cursing at each other. For the first time I REALLY listened to him instead of wanting to ONLY get my point accross. This is what I heard him say:

-I felt like I couldn't do anything right to please you or make your happy. All you did was nag and complain and that turned me off.
-I believed you moved out to be with OM.
-You wanted me to plan events/dates for us, but I'm not a planner.
-I still hurt from seeing the pix of you and the OM.
-I believe that you were in a relationship with OM. It was more than a "friendship or one-night stand."
-I will never visit you at your apartment because OM was over there.
-I feel like we never got over or dealt with the reasons why we separated the first time(this is our second separation but first affair in the marriage).

OK, so what are you going to DO regarding these? List the actions you plan on taking...

I am happy to say that we were both able to voice our opinion as to why we are still separated. I actually listened and gave a response calmly. What I didn't do is make an excuse for the affair as I have in the past.

Yikes.. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER attempt to empirically JUSTIFY an AFFAIR.. its a sleazy cruel, and incredibly self-destructive thing to engage in.. there is NO excuse for that behaviour..its NOT constructive.. it just makes your marriage a LOT WORSE.. affairs NEVER IMPROVE a situation.. they are cruel and destructive escapes...

Think of an affair as robbing a liquor store.. sure you get away with it... but now you are on the run.. you will get caught eventually.. and basically, you can't go back to a normal life... you are on the run until yoru crime spree is put to an end .. and then you have to pay the price for the history of damage you have brought intot his world...

There is always a solution to finance better than stealing, and there is always a soltion marital problems better than cheating.. it solves NOTHING

NO BLAME... take BLAME OFF the table... you made choices that hurt him, he made choices that hurt you.. the two of you can find a way PAST that, or you can divorce, finger poitning is NOT constructive

Shirley Glass has characterized victims of affairs as having the same trauma that victims of violent crimes have :

1. They feel used
2. They feel worthless
3. They feel VIOLATED
4. They feel UNSAFE.. a haunting feeling that it will never be over...

THIS Is what your H is dealing with right now... THESE feelings are what haunts him every night.. and you spent how long ARGUING a CASE for why your affair was justified? Oi Vey!!

Nothing justifies those feelings brought on someone... nothing.

We left Starbuck's and ate at Denny's which is where we went on our first date which I thought was cute. After that we got a hotel room because it was very late and he refused to come to my apartment because of the OM. I was disappointed that we weren't intimate. That makes me feel like he no longer has a need to be connected to me or that something else is going on....??? HMMMMMMM!!!!!

Uh oh...

1. STOP expecting sex... good LORD the man just had his marriage RAPED and you think he can produce an erection to make you feel better?
2. Focus on HIM and how HE feels, this means STOP worrying about how YOU feel... I still get a very strong sense that you want this relationsihp for YOU.. not for HIM.. you need to be in a place wehre you want HIM to have his marriage back and where you are working to find a SAFE and COMFORTABLE path that he can walk to get there...
3. You are NOT dating right now, its NOT cute.. you are healing WOUNDS.. NOT DATING... Trips to the hospital aren't dates, and neither is meeting your H to negotiate a reconcilliation... A HUGE problem I am sensing here is you seem terribly warm and fun to be around.. right NOW he needs SERIOUS MATURITY emanating from you... not a bouncy puppy dog ... puppies are fun when you are feeling good, but when your home has been RAPED by some sleazy creep who was mounting your wife behind your back you do NOT want to be around a puppy... You want REASSURANCE that you are SAFE and will NOT be hurt like that EVER AGAIN. Reassurance takes TIME.. you offer whatever you can, but he will only pick up what he feels like at the time
4. NEVER HIT ON HIM.. even if he repsonds.. he may HATE you later because he may end up with NIGHTMARES... when you bring his mind around sex.. it IMMEDIATELY throws images of the OM mounting you and he becomes WRACKED with feelings of VIOLATION... do NOT PUSH him right now... i would suspect he likley isnt' even CAPABLE of producing an erection. Tell him YOU want to e serious and focus on the two of you TRUSTING ech other again... SEX is NOT going to HELP that along.. its going to awaken flashbacks of your affair in his mind... do NOT go there.

Lastly... do NOT even CONSIDER him possibly cheating on YOU right now.. just STOP THAT.. yikes... its childish and hurtful to suggest to a man who has been cuckholded that HE is a liear and a cheat... it makes me sick to even think about it.

And ya, look up the word cuckhold.. its a real word... it will show you how horrible the human male feels when his wife has been secretly mounted by some sleazy creep for god knows how long... yikes, makes me shudder...

Anyhow, we deparated on good terms this morning and I feel like we got some things in the open. I asked him, if I were to move to a different aparment would he come and visit me and he said YES. So I'm not sure where we stand in terms of the pending divorce. I guess only time will tell. One day he tells me the divorce is STILL on and the next day he's willing to meet me for coffee and hang out but not even try to sleep with me. I certainly did not pressure him and respected the fact that he was tired and so we watched TV for a little bit and talked, then fell asleep as it was quite late.

You need to REMVOE ANYTHING FROM YOUR LIFE that may remind him of the OM.. I TOLD you this earlier.. change your phone, change yoru email, yes, change your WHOLE DAMN APARTMENT...

YOU need to get to a place where you can EMPATHIZE with him on this so much that thoughts of the OM disgust YOU.... and you are NOT there... or you wouldn't be able to sleep in your current apartment... and I am guessing you aren't even batting an eye about it... you likley even have photos of him on your PC still...

Sorry to be so blunt here but I see a HUGE mountain for you to climb, and I am worrying if you understood even half of what it will take to get this man back you will so intimidated you will run away... we DON'T want that.. I just sense a lot of confusion about you and where he is at right now.. you really don't seem to be aware of how horrible an affair makes someone feel...

Has anyone ever knowingly cheated on you? I say knowingly bcause its always possible you have been cheated on but never caught him...