I think marriage preparation classes should check which love languages you speak and if you don't speak the same ones then you should nix the M.
I would like to disagree as this is a topic that I have thought long and hard about.
My wife is a primary act of service/devotion kind of person and I am a primary language of love being sex and touching.
I feel that couples massage given to me by my wife as an act of service or devotion will still feel like touching to me and therefor make me feel loved. If she can pull it off, she will also feel she is doing something to express her love to me in her primary language of love.
Similarly, If I give my wife a sensual massage, I will be communicating my love for her in my primary language of love (touch). If I can convince her that my massage is really an act of service to her (by doing it at an appointed time or by allowing her to control aspects of it by say a coupon she can choose when the massage is given or the type of massage such as back or front), then she may be able to accept it as my expressing my love for her in her primary language of love.
Since this is about sex starved marriages, I think that sex can be "packaged" in a lot of ways so as to resemble other languages of love. Sex can be a "present" as in coupons, it can be bestowed as a form of quality intimate time together, it can be bestowed as an act of service, and it can be bestowed as words of affirmation (oh you have such a beautiful..../you do such wonderful things to me with your body.....)
Even though two people may not have the same primary or secondary languages of love, I think that there are lots of ways that those two people can find ways of showing their love and receiving their partner's love, if they are willing to be creative and stretch a little.
For several months, I have been working on trying to make my wife feel loved in her primary and secondary languages of love. I feel I have gotten through to her and made her feel loved. I have also during this time suggested ways in which she can make me feel loved in ways that are more in tune with her languages of love but still provide me with either the sexual stimulation (or erotic tension) I need or the physical touch I need. My secondary language of love is words of affirmation and she has been able to tell me her love for me much more easily.
I still think that two people can have a happy satisfying marriage, even if there languages of love are not the same.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
it can be bestowed as a form of quality intimate time together,
Not really. Quality time is more of a mind thing. To me at least. It has to be about talking ideas, chewing the fat, discussing what happened in the news, thinking about what would happen if...blah blah. Sex is intimate but it's not the same thing as quality time. Physical touch is my other LL so sex is fine by me and in fact I was more HD but I would not confuse sex or anything sexual with QT. Or maybe that was just because H was not a QT person.
You are lucky that your wife's primary LL is acts of service. I think a lot of men find that easier to do than quality time.
When I read the LL book I cried at the chapter on quality time, knowing that I wasn't getting any. And it brought to mind a remark my H had made when he said quite unkindly "all you and your family do is sit around a teapot talking". If I'd known the LL stuff then I would have been able to reply "but that's how we show we love each other".
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I still think that two people can have a happy satisfying marriage, even if there languages of love are not the same.
They maybe could if they BOTH are prepared to try and speak the other's LL. If one does and the other doesn't then it gets old pretty quickly to be the one speaking the foreign language the entire time. And I think it's really important to appreciate how difficult it is for someone to speak a LL that doesn't come naturally. All too easily it can get taken for granted.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
...They maybe could if they BOTH are prepared to try and speak the other's LL. If one does and the other doesn't then it gets old pretty quickly to be the one speaking the foreign language the entire time. And I think it's really important to appreciate how difficult it is for someone to speak a LL that doesn't come naturally. All too easily it can get taken for granted.
I think we are on the same page now. Yes, it is difficult to learn how to speak another language of love to please a spouse, but compared to being in a sexless marriage or many other things I have had to learn to do over 38+ years of marriage, at least it is something that can bring real happiness to my wife and that I am willing to stretch to accomplish.
When I came home late and she couldn't have dinner ready for me, my wife use to go nuts. I couldn't figure out why until I read 5LL and then it hit me that she felt about my not allowing her to perform her acts of service much like I felt when my initiation of sex was rejected. After than I always came home on time and even if I was going to be just a minute or 2 late, I would call to warn her so she could slow dinner down as she felt it was important to have it ready for me when I got home. I am not sure that acts of service is all that easier having had to live with it (at least until I understood what was happening.)
My wife's other language of love is Quality Time. My hope is to figure out some bedtime rituals that will allow her to feel like we have quality time while we both physically and verbally connect at the end of a day. I am not there yet, but have found that post-coital cuddling and talking is a special time to really connect closely verbally and emotionally.
If you have any quality time suggestions, I would enjoy finding out what seems best for you or other quality time women friends you know.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
An update, as I guess this is becoming my blog (of sorts). Nothing earth-shattering.
My wife and I had intercourse this past weekend for the third time since the end of our five-month SSM dry spell. So that is once a weekend for each of the past three weekends. This time it actually included her doing some foreplay and touching of me. That was a real pleasant surprise for me.
I gave her a Valentine's Day card and two wrapped presents. She took the test at the end of Chapmans the Five Languages of Love as a present to me (her primary LL is Quality Time followed one point lower by Acts of Service-Now we both "know" and have documentation)and cooked me a great Valentine's Day dinner. She really is a quality time and act of service person.
We had some quality time this weekend and we talked about my doing things around the house. What was interesting is that she only views some of the things that I do as acts of service on my part, the rest she views as "just doing my half of what needs to be done around the house." I decided not to push and just to listen and find out more about how she thinks. I guess, she chooses which things I do she views as statements of love and which she discards as just my rightful chores. I asked her what additional things could I do that she would find as acts of love. They were things she wants me to do but I haven't fully done yet. They include things like cleaning out my closet of old clothes (as her side of the hanging clothes rack has pushed over the half-way mark and she needs more room for her stuff that she isn't going to clean out----I would never say that out loud to her). At least she recognizes that I am trying to do things to make her feel loved.
I have told her in the past that I need sex more than once a week, but I have to admit that even once a week is a treat at the moment. I will push for greater sexual frequency, but want to give the both of us a little time prior to pushing for what I really need (repeat this is a marathon and not a sprint). I really feel that she has come a long way pretty quickly with the help of our sex therapist. That does give me hope for the future.
This coming weekend we are set to attend a couples retreat/workshop on our relationship. I hope that it will bring us closer together and that it will allow me to better communicate my needs to my wife. From reading summaries of what will happen, I suspect that it will provide my wife with tools that she can use (if she chooses to) that will allow her to better understand and meet some of my needs.
Right now is am slowly working my way through the book Mating in Captivity. From what I have read so far, I find it an interesting topic on can passion and familiarity co-exist in a committed marriage. I know that the author believes that they can and has shown some examples of how it can happen, but I am not quite half way through, so I expect that the "secret" to passion, lust and marital intimacy will be in the final chapters.
I hope that I have an opportunity to put it into practice.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
YAH, great progress, it sounds like. Seems she really is trying, and working at it, which should be very encouraging for you. Our last LM was early December, so I am hoping for some breakthrough soon, lol. Good luck with the retreat - that can be a powerful thing. BTW, don't count on a "magic bullet" in that book - I haven't read it, but I have read many others, and I suspect the "secret", if there is one, is something like "find what works"...
Thanks. Yes she is trying and actually doing things. It will be interesting to see if she goes beyond sex once a week or if the therapist needs to step in and work with us on that.
It will also be interesting to see how the couples weekend goes It is the Gottman Institute workshop and one of their things is the 5 hours a week thing about connecting at the start of each day, when we see each other at night and then just prior to going to sleep. I think that routine, could be a great quality time bonding ritual. http://artofmanliness.com/2009/07/08/diy-marriage-counseling/
I will let everyone know how the weekend goes.
I hope that you and your wife find the break through you are looking for.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
You asked about quality time ideas so that got me thinking. I think my main need as a quality time person is to have a mental connection with someone and to be known. So the more you can listen and talk to her, understand her, her hopes and dreams likes and dislikes etc the more she will get the feeling of your full engagement with her. My very bottom LL is gifts and one of the reasons for this is that often a gift is not really "me". What that does is fly in the face of my need as a QT person to be known. If the person knew me well they would not choose a gift that I wouldn't like. If they listen to me they would hear me say things that would give them plenty of clues. So I tend to get a bit ratty about poor choices of gifts (I try my best not to). The other thing is that people who like gifts often say it is because the person thought of them (in other words thought of them when they weren't there) - well again this is of no help to a QT person because we want the person with us not out shopping for gifts (or off doing some AOS). The more I think about it the more this looks like it has to do with my fear of abandonment. QT is about staying right here, as is PT.
Quality time things are like sharing a joke, asking for an opinion, listening to a rant (and not taking it personally), speculating, gossiping, analysing the crap out of something, participating in shared activities (one time I was watching tennis on TV and my (now ex) H joined me - and he said "I guess this doesn't count as QT" - and I said "yes it does because you don't normally watch tennis and you're watching it because I like it"), going on a hike together, visiting a museum or a gallery together. Just anything really that gets you on the same page with each other and lets you see each other's POV about life the universe and everything.
The reason xH didn't enjoy doing QT things is because he is a private person and doesn't want to be "known". He prefers to remain in his own private world. He called it "wasting time" because most QT activities are "unproductive". Just like a person who isn't into gifts might call a gifts person materialistic.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Thank you Haphazard for sharing your thoughts on QT.
I have been doing some of them (we went to a museum together a week ago and I have been trying to have nightly conversations with my wife and connect in the morning to find out what she is planning for her day so that I will be able to ask her how her day went with specific questions. It is helpful to know what meetings or situations she is afraid of and then ask her how they went. We also have been going on walks the past few weeks, where we talk as we walk and it is something she has been really positive about.
Thanks again!
P.S. I agree that gifts that are not chosen with care and knowing the person are not really that great. I try very hard to make gifts something that the person will either really like, something that they will feel will help them as an accessory to something they like doing, or something that they really need (or make their life more comfortable) and maybe have said they would like to get one-day.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
It has been a while since I last did an update, so I thought I could use the therapy of posting something.
We had our 4th joint sex therapy session this past week and I am truly pleased with our sex therapist. She has really strectched and pushed my wife in ways that I thought were not possible. That has resulted in some really trauma on the part of my wife, but also some real changes in behaviors. (Last Sunday my wife watched a Sinclair Institute Better Sex video our sex therapist had loanded us that she found revolting, but cause her to learn about sexual positions and things my wife had previously said were perverted and discusting, but now she said she might think about trying a few of them!)
The weekend of Feb 20/21 we spent 8:30 AM to 5:30 PM each day at a Gottman Institute couples workshop on the Art and Science of Love. It really did amazing things. On Saturday it focused on our friendship and common values and hopes for the future. It really made us aware of how close we were and what great friends/team we were. The second day focused more on dreams and managing conflict. There was an exercies of dealing with issues were we were in gridlock. We chose to work on the gridlock issue of sexual frequency. We both felt really frustrated, and angry, but we had tools that kept us positive and trying to resolve things. It was amazing to work on this conflict and not be destructive to each other, call a halt to the negotiations and agree to get into it on another day. Even though the Gottman workshop was expensive, I felt it was really worthwhile and we both wished we had taken it decades ago.
We were too drained that weekend for sex, but we still felt close to each other.
The following weekend, we had a heavy petting session on Saturday morning that my wife started and that I really enjoyed. After quite a while of touching, she kissed me and got up out of bed to take a shower, with the promise of taking care of me later. I loved it and the new woman who would do that.
Sunday morning she kept her promise and we had a very nice ML session that lasted a long time and made me feel loved. We went out to breakfast afterwards and went for a 3 mile walk so as to stay connected.
Then on Saturday March 6th we ML in the morning again, with her really touching me in ways that she hasn't touched me in years.
On Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday I massaged her back in bed prior to going to sleep and on waking in the morning. We have also been doing a "greeting ritual suggest by the Gottmans of an extended hug and long kiss" at night when we see each other after a day of work. It really does seem to make a difference.
Wednesday morning we had another extended make-out session, and I told her that I felt like we were two horny teenagers rather than an old married couple. We both laughed about that and hugged and kissed. Again, she promised me that she would take care of me later, because we needed to get to work.
Last night, Thursday March 11th, she had a session with her medical doctor (who specializes in women with low libidos and is a board registered sex therapist). My wife has been really getting the therapy from all sides. We had a long slow dinner (bowl of soup, bread and cheese) and talked about what her sex therapist has been telling her. My wife also got her lab work yesterday from her doctor and she actually is well above average in testosterone level for women of her age.
The doctor told her that there was no physical reason she shouldn't be wanting sex. The doctor told her that in her opinion the reason she had not been having sex was because my wife was very angry with me and that anger was what had inhibited her. They discussed this and my wife came to the realization that she had gotten angry at me decades ago over all the housework and child-raising she was doing along with her job and that her anger had caused her to withdraw from me and our marriage and that her withdrawal had caused me to be more distant in giving her more room. The doctor had helped my wife also realized that she had not effectively communicated her needs to me, but had just withdrawn and the sex between us started to go down hill in frequency and quality. Her doctor/sex therapist then got her to talk about how hurt she felt and then about how badly I must have been hurt by the lack of sex and intimacy. Her doctor then got her to talk about what she should do about this and if she can forgive me or wants to just allow our marriage to end.
My wife shared this with me and told me that she forgave me and that she realizes that while she has blamed me, that she now understands that part of the blame resides with her and she will never allow that kind of situation to happen again.
After dinner (and my doing the dishes) my wife came over to me, while I was watching TV on the sofa and lay out, putting her head on my lap. I massaged her head and we talked about us and traveling to Europe this summer. She then started to unbutton my shirt, then unbotton her shirt. We again made out like teenagers. She then undid my belt buckle and told me to take my pants of. Then she got naked and made love to me on the sofa in the living room with the lights on, allowing me to see her naked body. She made sure it lasted a long time and that I climaxed first, then she made sure that I satisfied her.
Wow, did I feel loved, desired, and in love. I knew there was a reason that I married this woman and that I didn't give up on her.
I think we may have turned the corner on our road to recovery from an SSM. While I expect some backsliding and managing some conflicts over differing levels of desire, sex and touching, I am one happy camper at the moment.
Thank you, to all who have helped me so far and the great advice that folks have given me about hanging in their and giving my wife space and time. I also thank those who urged me to work on getting a life. My told me that my dramatic weight loss and change in lifestyle (exercising and reading relationship books that caused me to give her the love that she needed) were the example that helped her decide that she too could change.
I am continuing to read relationship boods, but now my wife is suggesting some that her individual sex therapist and medical doctor have recommended. I just strated reading "Still Sexy after all these years" and it is about women over 50, their loss of libido, levels of sexual desire that go up and down and what they do to make life sensual and enjoyable. This book really resonated with my wife and I am looking forward to finishing it and talk to her about it.
I am not going to declare this a recoverd SSM yet, but maybe in a couple months if things continue, I will. I am just one happy satisfied and well loved camper at the moment. It is a nice change from how I have felt for the past several years.
Blessing and good luck to all of you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Wow, Young at Heart, your post brought tears to my eyes! I'm so happy for how far the two of you have come, and how you're both trying so hard to grow for each other, and to love each other both physically and spiritually. Congratulations for how far you've come, and I hope things just continue to get better!!
