!Help! Need Advice and encouragement!

[stark648]

My wife has moved in with OM and keeps taking my 16yr old stepson over there almost every night. She took my youngest 10yr old daughter there once also when I was out of town.(disturbed my daughter and I griped at wife-has not happened again). She is adamant about divorce, but is trying to keep relationships with kids. Wife has a heart condition and thinks she is going to die soon. Dr. may give her pacemaker, but she may not even need that. I don't think she is going to die from her heart, except stress and guilt is hitting her hard. She doesn't even come in the house anymore to get kids.--honks horn in driveway for school, etc.
I can't stop thinking about her and the other guy. I am hopeful that in time their relationship will sour, but they were friends for years before this. (He and his wife were our friends) Her therapist is feeding her bad advice, I think. I've read DB and DR--trying, but could use some advice/support. I feel crazy. She wants to go back to school, but I am afraid she is going to get pregnant and mess that up again and I have told her that. I have cut off funds except for a small one she can use for dr's--(she has not used it for that yet, even). How can I detach and GAL --I have to take care of kids most of the time... The thought-stopping is not working on the sex thoughts I get stuck with!

Me:48
W:35
s:16
d:15
d:10

she moved out January and dropped bomb

[sandi2]

Is she still M to you?

[stark648]

I had given up on a response---thanks. Yes, we are still legally married. According to her, "our marriage has been over for years". we have been married for 12 years, together 13. The OM was a friend from the AA club. They/we have known each other for 4 years or so. my wife was friends with his wife but always closer to him-"they are so much alike".(Way closer now unfortunately) She has always had male friends, and I have been tolerant of it for the most part. My wife has even suggested that I get together with his soon-to-be ex because she and I are alike (we aren't). I have read some of your posts, sandi2, and greatly value your advice and insight. She has been saying she wants to be independent, etc., but of course, that isn't what she is doing. She says that she has been feeling guilty for so long because she hasn't felt the way she should towards me. We have had our ups and downs, some of which were due to her going back to drinking sometimes-or her mother living with us-or her bad depression about her weight and jobs. She has complained about being a "nobody" because of her job/lack of credit and schooling. Also because the house and all the vehicles are in my name alone. I had to do it that way for credit reasons, mainly(or she wasn't available to sign car titles). Anyways, she is going to watch the kids tomorrow night while I go "somewhere". I could go out with some friends, or possibly an ex-girlfriend that is still unmarried or a club or something...suggestions??

[sgctxok]

Hi Stark,

Welcome to divorcebusting.com! I'm excited that Sandi2 responded to you because she is the best of the best on the board. She has been around a long time, and she is a success!

(Always go with the successes!) Her advice is great!

What are your wifes specific dissatisfactions? You are going to have to dig deeper. You are going to have to support her, help her build her self esteem. These affairs can take about 6m to 2 years....but it isn't likely to last. You don't wait around passively, you change things actively, but not reactively. That's strong manhood.

This is going to be a long haul, and you will have to be tough.

That's ok....because I really sense YOU CAN DO IT, and you will be a SUCCESS.

So....what is her vision of being successful? Do YOU need to be more successful as well?

[stark648]

She has always wanted to be a nurse, but hasn't taken classes for fear of failure. She also thinks I have not been supportive to her. I have told her to take some classes, but I had told her to get organized and be ready to study vs. tv, computer etc. She has never really been self-disciplined enough to stay with diets, exercise, housework, studying or any of her projects. I helped her with studying to get her high school GED, real estate license, restaurant manager training, and bank training.(She works at a bank, now--but hates it-and is only working part-time.) I told her that i would pay for the first year of school as part of the divorce settlement, so she could get her LVN and support herself. I had also hoped that would delay the divorce and let us try to reconcile. That was before she moved in with that other guy.(after his wife moved out) (Originally, she was going to stay with her mother or sleep on our couch). She can only stand her mother for short periods, however. I have been "hands-off" and letting her do "whatever" without calling, etc. We do talk or text some because of her picking up the kids from school or to visit them. She says I am a good father, husband, provider, etc., but I have been "smothering" her. I have always liked being with her and I liked her at home with me and the kids sometimes. She likes to go out with friends and family and liked me taking care of the kids. I just tried to keep a little balance in that and a little balance in the bank account as well. Now, she is trying to spend a lot more time with the kids.(but not at our house). She doesn't feel comfortable at our house or with me because she says she feels guilty--but she says she shouldn't because "our marriage has been over for years". She also says she has felt guilty for so long because she hasn't felt the way she should towards me and has been "stuffing her feelings down" or faking it. I am open to suggestions...I have done the 180 on pressure/pursue and am trying to GAL, but I think she is encouraging me to find someone else so she doesn't feel so guilty in her actions. I even switched gears and was "needy" for a bit, because the OM is needy. That had her calling me more, but then she was wanting to hurry with the mediation to maybe get divorced quicker. I stopped being needy. She is really trying to limit her contact at all with me (OM may be coaching her, I don't know.) We do not yell at each other, but she is rather indifferent to me. Any suggestions? 180 and GAL may not be working at all...

[stark648]

She has always wanted to be a nurse, but hasn't taken classes for fear of failure. She also thinks I have not been supportive to her. I have told her to take some classes, but I had told her to get organized and be ready to study vs. tv, computer etc. She has never really been self-disciplined enough to stay with diets, exercise, housework, studying or any of her projects. I helped her with studying to get her high school GED, real estate license, restaurant manager training, and bank training.(She works at a bank, now--but hates it-and is only working part-time.) I told her that i would pay for the first year of school as part of the divorce settlement, so she could get her LVN and support herself. I had also hoped that would delay the divorce and let us try to reconcile. That was before she moved in with that other guy.(after his wife moved out) (Originally, she was going to stay with her mother or sleep on our couch). She can only stand her mother for short periods, however. I have been "hands-off" and letting her do "whatever" without calling, etc. We do talk or text some because of her picking up the kids from school or to visit them. She says I am a good father, husband, provider, etc., but I have been "smothering" her. I have always liked being with her and I liked her at home with me and the kids sometimes. She likes to go out with friends and family and liked me taking care of the kids. I just tried to keep a little balance in that and a little balance in the bank account as well. Now, she is trying to spend a lot more time with the kids.(but not at our house). She doesn't feel comfortable at our house or with me because she says she feels guilty--but she says she shouldn't because "our marriage has been over for years". She also says she has felt guilty for so long because she hasn't felt the way she should towards me and has been "stuffing her feelings down" or faking it. I am open to suggestions...I have done the 180 on pressure/pursue and am trying to GAL, but I think she is encouraging me to find someone else so she doesn't feel so guilty in her actions. I even switched gears and was "needy" for a bit, because the OM is needy. That had her calling me more, but then she was wanting to hurry with the mediation to maybe get divorced quicker. I stopped being needy. She is really trying to limit her contact at all with me (OM may be coaching her, I don't know.) We do not yell at each other, but she is rather indifferent to me. Any suggestions? 180 and GAL may not be working at all...

[Onthemountaintop]

Stark: Is the hardest part trying to see what is your W's point of view, and what is from the man who broke his own M to be with her, and now is trying to finish off yours'?

If she felt 'smothered', mabye this is a good time to think about yourself. You talked a lot about her dreams, degrees, etc. What about you?

I read a book that talked about the differences in men and women (Improve your marriage without talking about it) which said that when a W leaves at night, men feel like something is missing and it makes them uncomfortable. It sounds like that might be true for you. It also sounds like her leaving you behind might have been part of the problem.

Can you smother without spending much time? Maybe. My W is so needy, always wanting me at home even though I usually am, that when I'm with her I just want out. I'd love to go out with her, but she doesn't. What about you? Is there a reason you've been hands off instead of going out and having fun, exciting things to do with her?

A healthy parent has a healthy M. My kids (5!) have been a drag on my R, not because of them, but because my W has always seen herself as a mother, not a wife. Lately, she is now feeling like both. What about you? Are you a father, or husband? Both? How do you show that?

I've asked you a lot of questions I've asked myself, except one. Are you OK having sex with a woman who's doing another man? Can you really, deep down, forgive her? Time will prove your ideas true, but what does your soul tell you now?

If you can, pick up your socks and be the best you can be but make sure every door to your house and heart are open with boundaries to protect yourself. If you can't, be the best anyhow, it is your life.

[sandi2]

I want to encourage you to come to the board every chance that you have b/c there is support here and you need it. Even if you don't always post, you can read other threads and it will help to see how others handle particular situations.

It is obvious that your W has very low self-esteem. It might have something to do with her not pursuing a higher education, but whatever it is that's caused it....I think it has a lot to do with her unhappiness with herself. She must be well-rounded if she has has these various employments b/c none of them seem easy.

The OM may have started out as a friend, but he & your W fulfill some emotional need in each other. When that stops, then their R will probably be over. So, what will you do in the meantime? That is what you need to decide.

Most H's want to fix whatever the problem is....and get on with the M, however that is not so easy if the problem rests inside of her. The first thing you have to accept is the fact you can't "fix" her and you can't change her. You can't control what she does. That is hard to accept, isn't it? She has problems that she will have to work out and it will be tough on you to know that you can't help her.

Accepting that will hopefully help you to pull back and not pursue her. I think that is natural for men to pursue, and when they see a D headed their way...they tend to panice and therefore pursue even more. So, I want to tell you from personal experience that she does not want you to pursue her at all. That won't work.

You will see this same advice given over and over, but that is b/c it works......and I'm talking about improving yourself and your capasity for life. If you will take your focus off your W and her A and consentrate on becoming the best man you can possibly be, then there is a much greater possibility at having a wonderful life.

Have you taken in consideration how you contributed to the breakdown in the M and how you can avoid anything like that happening in the future? You can't go back and change the past, and if she can't let go....then that could be a big problem for "her". In the meantime, you could make a list of goals and really work at them for yourself....and not as a way of getting her back, okay?

As you've probably read, most of the men start working on some time of an exercise routine b/c of the stress they are under. It helps with the tension, plus all the healthy benefits of having a body that is in good condition. It helps the ego, too!

The children will need you a lot during this time and they must be so hurt and confused at what their mom is doing. It's important to spend more time with each of them.

Getting a life for yourself is so important.....and I think it takes self-discipline b/c you may not "feel" like doing anything...but you have to force yourself to stay busy at something you enjoy. You need to be with good friends and have some social life. You cannot lay down and stop living due to what your W is doing.

Treat yourself to some new clothes, maybe a new hair style, etc. You need to think of yourself as a new person and look the part while you are making the changes.

The more you can tell us, the better we will know how to respond.

[stark648]

I checked for any responses last night before I went out, but not after I got home. Thank you---I appreciate them.

She was always leaving me with the kids-(whom i love)-and going to AA meetings, then dinner, or shopping, or to her sister's, mom's etc. I didn't mind the meetings most of the time; I know she needs them and they are good for her spiritually. Shopping made me nervous when it was excessive. (proof is in closet-clothes with tags still on them) When she was going somewhere every night and staying late is when I would be frustrated. If we all went, or she took the kids, it was okay, also.--if we could get them home in time for showers and bed. She only works 20 hours a week and would do some visiting, meetings, and socializing while I was at work. Then more after work. I would try to get some of our time or our family time in there in between.

She has never really been the wife that comes home, cooks dinner, cleans, or the like. I have washed more dishes than anyone in the house. The kids and I mainly eat microwaveable items or sandwiches.-or fast food or restaurants. Some times I or the kids cook. I make the kids all wash their own clothes and I wash all mine. She may wash hers, but not get them put up. I have done the bathrooms mainly as well. Most of our marriage, she has wanted a clean house, but doesn't really work at it enough herself.

When she was doing her facebook stuff, I would do computer games. We had pretty much stopped watching tv together because of "Farmville". At least she was home, then, and the kids could visit some with her. I talked to her while gaming.

As far as going places, most of the time, we had me watching the kids. Sometimes I would go out with the kids or a friend. Now I have been trying to GAL, but still be with the kids a lot-they need it now. Wife and I had been going to some extra church meetings/studies alone together a couple of nights a week. These were some of our times to be together. She also didn't like me going to her AA meetings, because it made her uncomfortable to where she couldn't share openly (she said). She would not open up a whole lot to me (or anyone really).

She has had a horrible childhood which included rape and gang rape and extreme violence. She had to caretake her alcoholic mother at an early age and is still taking care of her in ways today. She was part of a motorcycle group family that made her feel loved. (The OM is an AA biker from that type background) There were some bad things that she did back then or bad things that happened to people because they messed with her. After that, she was married to a physically abusive husband that really did a number on her mind and soul. She was separated from him and trying to divorce him when we met 13 years ago.
Since her mother moved back to this area AGAIN, a lot of her past has grabbed her mind again. She can't seem to let go of these things that happened over 13-20 something years ago. Her therapist brought them all up and she got worse off. She was diagnosed as bi-polar for a while and adhd. then also diagnosed with depression. She has been on so many meds different times. She quit most of the meds, except she kept using the wellbutrin, which had always caused her sexual and other obssessions. It made her feel she was clear-minded and getting things done, but mainly she was running in circles. She is now off all meds except for the sex/love addiction of the other guy.

I did get some new clothes, cologne, and hairstyle already. I have been cleaning the house with the kids better than it has been cleaned. I called an ex-girlfriend from 13 years ago to talk or go for coffee. (She hasn't called back yet) Wife came over tonight (after I would not answer the phone) to tell kids happy valentine's day. I was busy watching a movie and talking on the phone. I was not rude, but did not really engage her in conversation. She looked like her knee was bothering her and she was miserable or tired or stoned on pain pills for her knee.(or just that guilty stressy look she gets) I only waved when she left and didn't walk her to her truck or anything. I was in a good mood and laughing, etc. I have been working on my own moral inventory, and have been making changes and getting closer to God. He has been helping me with the pain.

Like I said before, she has her oldest son over at her OM's house, and wants to get all of the kids over there to make her new boyfriend and adultery accepted by them. I do not want my youngest D10 going. The kids will do almost anything to be with mama, but my two daughters want her to visit here and not take them there. My eldest stepson gets bribed with extra freedoms, attention, clothes, gifts, etc. over there. She also does things out of character, like sexier clothes for my D15 and high heels for my 10-year old. I hear she acts happy over there, but I think it's fake most of the time, and her temper and feelings will come out more as time goes by (slowly). I am trying to balance social for me with spending enough time with my poor daughters. what else can I do---I am starting the bowflex again tomorrow. I have known I could never fix her, but I have tried to give her the tools and knowledge to fix herself --God, therapist, psychiatrist, share groups, etc. The therapist has stirred her into being "all about me" (with little regard for kids) and I think my wife will be sorry later, but how much later? She does seem miserable when we see her for short periods. She won't even stay in the house much. Any suggestions???? Is this enough info?

[sandi2]

Thank you for sharing that information. It does help to know what she's been through and what you & the kids are doing now.

I have read other threads right here on the board about women who have been through the terrible experience your W has had. I can't begin to "know" what she has had to deal with, but my heart hurts for her. I am concerned that she may not have the right therapist treating her. It is like finding the right MC......you have to try more than one if the first one isn't using the right methods.


I have read that some women with low self-esteem will buy a lot of new clothes and keep in their closets with the tags b/c it gives them some sense of security, but IDK. She would have to have an allowance or else her own checking account. Sure wouldn't want to turn her lose with a credit card.

Speaking of her spending.....what is she doing while staying with OM? You aren't giving her any means of finance are you? You do not need to pay for her cell phone, car payment, or anything else is she is living with OM while M to you. Do not enable her A. If she wants a D, then she needs to see what life without you will be like.

Have you taken steps to protect your finances? If not, you need to see somebody that deals in family law and see where you stand financially and with custody of your children. Since she is living with OM, it seems to me that you would not have a problem having custody.

You do not tell her that you've talked to anyone, but if she sees some money flow suddenly stop and asks you about it, you just tell her that you have taken steps to protect you and your children. As far the D action, you wait on her to do all the work. If she is trying to push you into filing....don't do it. Tell her that if she wants a D then she will have to do the work. Some couple if go as far as filing but then back out, so don't give up hope.....if you still want a M with her.


I think you handled yourself very well when she came by the house yesterday. You were not rude but you were "involved" and didn't have time for her (and she did come by just to see the kids). That little wave of the hand was just enough. I think from this point on, you need to stop walking her to the car. Again, I am not suggesting rudeness but there are a few things that she needs to see that she has "lost" b/c of her on decisions. That is a small act, but it makes a statement, IMO.

Does she still attend the classes at Church? I wondered how devoted she was to the Church and how much this A will affect her spiritually. That was the bases of me choosing to give up my EA b/c I knew I could not have fellowship with God and live a life that was not pleasing to Him.

While I'm thinking about it, let me throw this in. If she should suddenly show up (or call) and wanting to come back home......you need to try and control your own emotions and talk to her respectfully & calmly and tell her that the only way you would agree to her moving back home would be if she agreed to never contact OM again and that she would work on the MR with you.

You see, if something was to happen in the A with the OM and he threw her out or they just had a huge fight, then she would probably want to run back home. That is not how you want her to return. You do not want to be second choice. You don't want to be the consolation......you want to be the prize.

So in thinking of being the "prize", continue to do a good job on looking great and becoming the man you use to be. We all change over the years, and you don't want to act immature but you want to recapture some of those qualities that made your W attracted to you when she fell in love with you.