After 4 days days and 8 posts, Mike clearly "Gets it":
Originally Posted By: Mike in Jax
Thanks for your help - my running dialog detailing the ebb and flow of my emotional state provided a fair amount of input and a lot of direction for my new life. What I took from it is:
In order for me to become strong in any relationship, I need to distance myself from her as I am presently dependent upon her for a large portion of my happiness. I am clinging and want to talk to her - be with her - constantly. Its not to the point where I am a puppy dog but its bad enough where even I see I may be speaking of changes or how easy it will be to affect a new life, but in the end, its the same weak me which turned her off in the first place.
She wants what any healthy woman wants - a strong man who is caring and able to set a trail. One who manages a healthy balance in life. One who is flexible enough to live outside a comfort zone while at the same time nurturing enough to proactively understand and address her needs.
She has been able to detach. I have not.
In detaching, you give yourself a fighting chance to define who you are. The process sheds any habit or routine of co-dependency. It forces you to define a person who you enjoy being around. Once detached, you rely on yourself, for yourself. Want to feel pity? Sure, you can, but each day you wallow in the pity parade represents another day in which you lose an understanding of who you are - unless, of course, you are a person who enjoys being catharctic, negative, and lifeless.
At this point, the person that I am is not attractive to her.
Pursuing her at this point reminds her of the guy she grew out of love with. While the issues seem "fixable" to me, they are of larger magnitude and proportions to her . She is looking for a lifechange - one which opens the doors to the possibilities and joys that any relationship can bring to those lucky enough to have a burning fire for life. You have seen it - a person who has the fire for life can walk into a room and put smiles on people's faces, the one who listens to every word you say and committs it to memory, the one who silently leads making sure everyone is getting their needs addressed.
By living in the house, it further reinforces the "fixable" nature of our problems.
Yesterday was Day 1 of me back to work - I work from home. It was an odd feeling knowing the living arrangement has not changed but the mental status has. She is a loving person and is able to paint a smile on and keep her emotions and feelings internalized. You would never know what she is thinking. Her sheer presence exudes a caring nature - one which says, I love you. That further reinforces to me that things are fine, they are fixable - we just need to do something we haven't done in a while and that's work together to fix us. Its the same fraudulent relationship we had in the past - now with the understanding that we no longer care for each other in the same way.
But that's not what this is about. Its about a re-birth of self.
What I want to do - is tell her, if she no longer wants to actively work on a relationship with me, then she needs to move out immediately as I refuse to live as husband and wife but not work this through together. Today, we are continuing the fraud after the "breakup" as we were before the breakup. The only thing that has changed is our understanding that we are now just friends.
What I need to do - be man enough to understand that my child's feelings are most important in this arrangement and while he needs a stable home life, I need to move on with every ounce of my being to forge a new person - reach for my greatness, for me, of me, by me. That means being cordial, saying things in fewer words, working with her to move through the day but relying on her for nothing and pursuing her not one bit. You want this, great, enjoy your time on the island.
But therin lies the problem - how do I cross the divide between want and need?
Good therapy there as the "want" puts my needs first - a problem central my lack of inter-relationship success while the "need" is the solution I need to grasp as an individual to be a strong, healthy, nurturing individual on this earth.
Our son is in 3rd grade and has a state regulated test to take at the end of March. If he passes, he goes to 4th grade - if not, he repeats 3rd. He had complications at birth which delayed his development. At age 9, he is evolving himself into becoming involved in the academic process but he is a bit behind in mastering some of the fundamentals of writing, and math. He does not need any distractions leading up to the test.
Let's call it as it really is:
She kicked me to the curb and is only in this house right now for the mental stability and general productivity of our son.
If a job fired me, would I go back into the managers office to share all the good things I did and re-committ to being a better employee?
No.
I need to move in a directon that does not put her as the focal point of my life - I am.
I need to break the dependency and define who I am as a man.
If she needs other influence to stimulate her growth as a woman, then I should not be forced to respect that woman.
Mental separation comes along with financial responsibility. We are effectively roomates and as such, you will need to pay your way. Our bank accounts should no longer be linked - your money is yours and my money is mine. She should find employment once our son has taken his test while working until then to practice with him as I am now doing with him.
I have created my manifesto based on the lessons learned and provided as responses and will be using them to develop a new sense of self.
I plan on talking to the personal therapist about my need to be in a relationship to be happy in life. It really is a symptom of me having no life.
G'day all. We speak to MC today and I needed this refresher before I went in and poured my emotion and explained why my Nature and Nurture has caused me to become derailed and all that needed to occur is W and I to just work it out.
Right, that would solve it all!
NOT!
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I wish my WAW was still at home...She is living with the OM. This is my first post. I need help and encouragement. She has been bringing the kids over there! (One daughter won't go)Youngest daughter doesn't want to go back (she's 10). I have cut her off credit card and bank acct. I advised her before I did it, but after that was when she moved more stuff out...She texted me yesterday telling me she "was not ok" and felt like a total f-up. i screwed up and texted her that "I love her unconditionally". No contact yet today. She can't hardly stay at the house for guilt, etc. I can't hardly work because of the thoughts of her & OM. Need prayer and encouragement. I had been more like GAL , and we talk okay as friends, now. That approach did not seem to do well enough after a bit...OM is "needy"--so I was showing how bad I've been affected by this during the last two days. She was actually calling me more and telling me she's not doing good, etc... Do what works, right? I had been changing and being independent, but that seemed to lose steam. I was floored when she said she "felt like such a f-up" --I thought maybe we were on the downhill side at least. Then later she didn't really want to even stay with the kids until I would be home.
M:48 W:35 S:16 D:15 D:10 Md: 12 years bomb: Jan 8 ? moved out about then also
HELP HELP
I am going to counselor this aft'noon for me.
M:48 W:35 S:16 D:15 D:10 Md: 12 & 1/2 years bomb: Jan 8 ? she moved out about then also Moved in w/OM soon after
So.. the inevitable has happened. My H has had a revolution. Its quite amazing. He had a panic attack and the blood rushing to his head did serious damage or should I say "good"? Two weeks ago, my H came home from work early after calling in the police therapist and having a long two hour session with him. He said we "needed to talk"
By this time I was soooo done. I told him earlier that day that this isn't the life I want. I don't want an H that doesn't love me. I don't want an H that comes and goes as he pleases. I don't want an H that gives absolutely no time to his family. I don't deserve any of that. I finally stuck up for myself. Let the fear go. It was so refreshing to finally do what I want. And say what I want. It felt good to be so liberated, and free. No more eggshells, I couldn't deal anymore. It was bringing me down one step at a time. So I did it. And it changed our life.
We sat down to have "the talk" and he broke down (which has yet to happen in 4 and a half months). He told me that at work today it all of a sudden hit him. That this time he could really lose me. When he left it was on "his" terms. If he wanted to come home he could. He knew I would be there with open arms. So sure, he came home and there I was.
He said this time was different, this time he felt like HE was losing ME. And it scared him to death. It made him realize that that is not what he wants. He wants me and the kids and this family. With help from the therapist he realized that subconsiously he was "pushing the envelope" with me the past few weeks. He was almost waiting for me to fail. Waiting for my changes to fall through and not be "real" changes. He wasn't doing this on purpose, but at the same time..he was. Its hard to explain, but the therapist said he has seen this many times. WAS leaves, only to come back expecting failure. Expecting the the LBS has "faked" the changes that need to be made in order to bring their spouse home again. So when those changes are real, it scares the WAS. Which is what happened to my H.
He realized he treated me like crap that last two months, apologized over and over. He WANTS to go to counseling together as a couple. And on his own as well. He owned up to having his own issues that need to be dealt with. He said he needs the help of a therapist to help him get through this and get us in a good place. He finally admitted that he needs help and can't do this on his own. AMEN to that one!
So we have a meeting this friday and the journey begins. I'm more happy than ever. I will take all the help we can get if in 20 years I can look back with him and say, "yes, we had a good 4 month rough spot, but with some help we got our marriage on track and look at us now!"
He told me he loves me and never stopped. As do I.
The last few weeks since this happened have been amazing. He has been the man I married. He spends time with us as a family. He gives me the affection he once did and lost. It feels like our first year of marriage all over again. He is virtually never on his blackberry anymore. Which is amazing. He focuses on me all the time. No more texting each other. We "talk" now. I owe it to myself to give this a try. I did not go through 4 months of hell to throw it all away. So we'll see how it goes...
Just wanted to catch everyone who stood by me through this. Too many to name. I appreciate every single one of you. I know I've been MIA the last few weeks, but I've been busy with my "new" marriage. I will now be going over to the "piecing" thread as I feel I'm there now.
Thanks everybody again. Keep on keepin' on...
Britt
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
How familiar are you with Britt's situation? You sound like you disagree with how she finally (successfully) handled this.
Britt "changed her behavior" umpteen million times. It wasn't until she finally let go of the fear, and truly detached that her husband responded to her.
I don't believe that it's "walking away faster than they do" that "works."
First off, walking away faster than they do is absolutely not consistent with the purpose behind why we all come to this board.
I see it equivalent to someone threatening to jump off a tall building and responding by threatening to jump first.
Most new people who come here are in a fragile state. A failing marriage, particularly if the "D" word has been spoken, puts us in a weak state emotionally. We don't make good decisions in that state and we can rarely carry out a "strategy" that requires a fine line of balance.
What works is putting a stop to obsessing about the state of the relationship.
What works is finding a way to stop obsessing about what the wandering spouse is doing.
What works is changing your mindset and ending the constant analysis of every word, action, and interaction as being something that either improves or deteriorates the relationship.
Mostly what works is taking the opportunity to look inward, put the focus on yourself and how you can become a better person, spouse, parent.
Make yourself more attractive than any of the options your spouse thinks they have.
And remember that you are responsible only for you. You control only you. You can change only you.
Trying to do any of those things for your spouse is misguided and will lead to failure.
Put the focus where it belongs. Set your goals, determine a way to get there, and start making your days productive, even in the face of the mess your marriage is in.
Don't do things NOW that can permanently damage any hope of restoring the relationship later.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I don't believe that it's "walking away faster than they do" that "works."
First off, walking away faster than they do is absolutely not consistent with the purpose behind why we all come to this board.
I see it equivalent to someone threatening to jump off a tall building and responding by threatening to jump first.
Most new people who come here are in a fragile state. A failing marriage, particularly if the "D" word has been spoken, puts us in a weak state emotionally. We don't make good decisions in that state and we can rarely carry out a "strategy" that requires a fine line of balance.
What works is putting a stop to obsessing about the state of the relationship.
What works is finding a way to stop obsessing about what the wandering spouse is doing.
What works is changing your mindset and ending the constant analysis of every word, action, and interaction as being something that either improves or deteriorates the relationship.
Mostly what works is taking the opportunity to look inward, put the focus on yourself and how you can become a better person, spouse, parent.
Make yourself more attractive than any of the options your spouse thinks they have.
And remember that you are responsible only for you. You control only you. You can change only you.
Trying to do any of those things for your spouse is misguided and will lead to failure.
Put the focus where it belongs. Set your goals, determine a way to get there, and start making your days productive, even in the face of the mess your marriage is in.
Don't do things NOW that can permanently damage any hope of restoring the relationship later.
Blessings,
Bill
I don't disagree with ANY of that.
I also know that Britt held the key a long time ago, and in fact if you read back thru all of her posts, there were several times when she could have attracted her husband back by doing what she ULTIMATELY did, saving herself months more of heartache.
I also know, though, that each of us are "ready" only when we're ready.
It's like that scene in the Wizard of Oz, where the good witch tells Dorothy that she always had the key of how to get back home to Kansas.
