I've hit a wall.. Now what?

[flowmom]

Talia, I hope I can ask this in your thread without it being a hijack...

This:

I am SOOOOO grateful for the things I have resolved about myself during this time. I NEVER would have come this far if H hadn't walked out and forced me to take a hard look at myself. I am 10X better as a person than I was. I . . . I WILL BE a fantastic partner for someone, someday.

Sounds so much more powerful than this:

I know you have some legitimate complaints about my role in the dysfunction of our marriage. I acknowledge that, and as you know, have been dealing with my issues. I believe in time you could have seen that those changes are for real.. I would have been willing to put in some effort to see if this marriage can be saved.

and conveys essentially the same thing.

Any thoughts on how to communicate in a less formal way? I find that when I'm stressed, my written or verbal communication gets really formal like the second version above. My sister has identified this as a communication problem that I have with H. It's like my mind can't find the words to say it in a "real" way. Or maybe I think if I communicate in a formal way, my words can't be misconstrued?

[talia]

Flowmom -
You are right on. One of the things I identified in IC was I spend alot of time acting the way I THINK other people THINK I should be acting. Being formal is part of that issue - one I'm working very hard on I do better about being "real" when I talk to him in person - but I also have a hard time seeing him so its a double edged sword.

And I never mind a little hijack!!!!! (((flowmom)))

I think I - and maybe you too - feel like "formal" communication is unemotional communication. Since this sitch is SO emotional its my way of controlling that?

The bigger lessons learned over the last two days is 1) I don't care anymore about what happens 2)I no longer have to explain myself or apologize or excuse anything I do since H isn't going to listen anyway 3) I have the cookie!!!!

I was thinking last night about Pearl's post telling me that I need to not discuss in my email when I've told H that I have nothing to talk to him about and Dudess'(i think)point that he may feel the same way about the new me that I feel when I see him.... Follow me on this...

H swears he doesn't care anymore, just wants out, you know the drill... So when he sends me an email spewing about issues in our relationship and how he feels about them... I know he really does still care, otherwise why would he be hashing those things out or trying to throw them in my face??... So if I do the same thing.. while I'm thinking I'm standing up for myself and telling him to stuff it ... Really he's probably having the same response I do when he spews... Does that make any sense??! I need to be all business - totally detached. While I FEEL that way I need communicate it better. I really don't care anymore so there's no need to hash that stuff out - its all a moot point! My goal at this point is for him to realize the gravy train has crashed, I'm not taking on more than I should and he can deal with the reality of the decisions he's made. The best way to do that is to leave out the other stuff and just tell him what's going to happen going forward. He can't read into that!!!! I swear this was an epiphany moment...

I think the best way for me to "communicate" is with actions only. Talk is cheap. I don't need to express those things to him in any way - walking away from him and this D will do that for me. THAT'S the lesson I needed to learn this week!!!

T

[flowmom]

Flowmom -
You are right on. One of the things I identified in IC was I spend alot of time acting the way I THINK other people THINK I should be acting. Being formal is part of that issue - one I'm working very hard on

Yeah. I think I place a lot of value on "doing the right thing", which can translate into sounding like really formal. I like to think that I'm authentic with people, but maybe I'm not as authentic as I think I am? Wow, I didn't realize how hard it is for me to speak from the heart. I guess I know that my impulsive words have done a lot of damage over the years, so maybe my formality is an attempt to control that through my communication. But really I probably need to deal with my underlying feelings so that when I communicate impulsively and from the heart, I'm communicating things that are loving, not hurtful.

I think I - and maybe you too - feel like "formal" communication is unemotional communication. Since this sitch is SO emotional its my way of controlling that?

Yes, I think that control is part of it with me too.

Thanks for letting me ramble in your thread

[chatterbug]

Interesting thoughts.


"I am the one that has the power to end my pain, no one else." It is amazingly empowering.
"I deserve better from myself." Especially, the word 'from' as
opposed to 'for' which is more ego based.

Sorry I have been picking apart a post on this forum for a few months now.

Flowmom, Dudess is this what your stating?

Empowering vs dependency

[Dudess]

Flowmom, Dudess is this what your stating?

Empowering vs dependency


I didn't see talia's draft about her shortcomings as dependent, but perhaps unduly supplicating towards a H who, whatever her shortcomings, chose to break his vow of fidelity rather than deal with the problems and/or leave the marriage in an honorable way. And of course in typical adulterer style, he would magnify her shortcomings to justify his actions.

The way she wrote in response to someone here, showed a woman who used a marital crisis and painful situation to examine herself and grow into a better person, for her own sake and to be a better partner in the future to H or someone else. It sounded like a humble, but confident person taking responsibility for her personal growth.

"I am the one that has the power to end my pain, no one else." It is amazingly empowering.

Good sentiment to a degree. I would say "I am the one who has power to remove myself from a painful situation which doesn't look like it will improve". Once you stop the ongoing pain, there is still pain to heal however. That is a task for ourselves, but primarily happens through positive, healing interactions with others. Pain caused in relationship, is usually healed in relationship also.

"I deserve better from myself." Especially, the word 'from' as opposed to 'for' which is more ego based.

I like that too. I don't have a problem with "I deserve better for myself." either. Sometimes, you can reach down and give the best from yourself, and you still won't be treated well by others.

There's nothing wrong having a healthy ego. In fact, it is quite necessary. Part of a healthy ego is our sense of self-esteem, self-respect, personal boundaries, and values.

[Onthemountaintop]

he can deal with the reality of the decisions he's made. The best way to do that is to leave out the other stuff and just tell him what's going to happen going forward.

Hi Talia,

Is it possible that he might overreact to telling him what will happen? It might wake him up, too, but you mentioned that you don't believe in D. What I'm really suggesting, perhaps wrongly, is that if you feel comfortable telling him what you are doing, he has no right to overreact - he walked. If you are telling him what must happen in the R next, I wonder if he might feel it is a power struggle and get caught up fighting the waves instead of looking at their beauty.

I'd say your situation seems too tough, but your posts for my sitch give me the impression that you are very strong minded, so I'm sure whatever you decide, you will be fully ready to face the good (and painfu)l 'waves'. You should feel proud that you care enough to try to do something about your M.

[pearlharbr]

If he overreacts that's his problem, not Talia's problem. She has every right to tell him how she will proceed with things from now on.

I really don't care anymore so there's no need to hash that stuff out - its all a moot point! My goal at this point is for him to realize the gravy train has crashed, I'm not taking on more than I should and he can deal with the reality of the decisions he's made. The best way to do that is to leave out the other stuff and just tell him what's going to happen going forward. He can't read into that!!!! I swear this was an epiphany moment...

Excellent epiphany! I think nothing but business is appropriate for this point. As long as you maintain a civil tone throughout and don't let things get emotionally charged you won't completely burn bridges. But there's also no point in thinking about crossing a bridge that you haven't even come to yet.

Have a great weekend! See you on Tuesday.

[talia]

Thanks Pearl!!! Have a FABULOUS TRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OTM,
I understand what you are saying and thanks for posting here. You are missing the point in a lot of the DB stuff. DBing is about handling a terrible situation in an empowering and PERSONALLY positive way - that MAY help you rebuild your relationship.
I don't believe in D - but I don't have that choice. H has disappeared and over almost 6 months hasn't given me any indication he's changing his mind. He's full into some kind of "new" life with OW. I can't be in an open marriage - so while I don't believe in it- that decision has been made for me.
The major point you are missing - NOTHING I do/don't do is going to be the ONE THING that makes him wise up. HE needs to come to that realization on his own. What I can do is interact with him in a personally empowering way. That means standing up for myself - no matter what the consequences might be.

I CANNOT make decisions based on what I THINK he will do/say/think/feel/react. His actions say he's done and thats all I have to go on. I cannot let him take advantage of me or continue to treat me disrespectfully.

This isn't a "strategy" to get him to open his eyes OTM - I'm done. I give in - he can have his damn D. I WILL NOT continue to live in a world where the one person I've given myself to is giving himself to another person. I get the impression that you think everything here is a strategy to get a spouse back. Its not - and thats not what DBing is about - everything here is to show all of us how to be the best we can. Thats it.

To be my best I need to rid myself of the parasite that is my H. He needs to start pulling his weight - THATS all this is designed to do. If it pushes him to D then so be it.

I know it seems harsh but after 6 months of detaching I finally don't give a $h!t if he comes home or not.

I'm officially in the the middle of the perfect storm. I don't want H to come home since he hasn't changed, I don't want to D, I don't want to put in the effort to go back to school, I don't want to spend the $ to go back, but I no longer want the career I have and I can't keep doing the job I'm doing forever. My point.... sometimes you have to make the best decisions based on reality, your values and logic - NOT on fleeting emotion.

That includes D.

Hope this helps you start to look at everything here differently!

T

[talia]

Oh - one more thing - OTM - I EXPECT him to overreact to this email. I expecting nothing less from him. I don't care if he does - I need things to be the way I'm expressing because its what is fair to ME (and him) legally. I'm simply laying out to him what the LEGAL reality of this situation is. He's going to overreact because its not what HE thinks is fair - and thats not my problem.

Somthing to think about...

T

[pearlharbr]

Brava Talia!

Ok, really need to finish my packing. I've just been informed I have to be ready to leave at 6:30am.