I hate how this process bring out the worst sometimes.
Retracing the past doesn't help. Anger doesn't help. Self-righteousness doesn't help. Self-involvement doesn't help. Need to focus on the future, on my boys. Really need to focus on PMA. Focus on being the best version of myself.
Yes, her needs were important. But - 6 months of stress that we were both going through - yeah, I want to be able to count on my partner to be resilient. We went to Hawaii in May, we had a great anniversary celebration in June - and yes, there were times where I was sick (yeah, last year's Valentine's day), I was tired, I needed to rest from work, etc. But for God's sake, say something like "I think we should go to counseling." Suddenly, you lose everything. I don't know, C pointing out that she's lost that loving feeling - I mean - really? How about the kids? How about the commitments? How about riding out the ups and downs? How about love is a decision?
((((Bill)))) I know. I have felt this way too. Trying to understand how the WAS could never say how unhappy they were. And I know some on here disagree, but I do not think an A is acceptable under ANY circumstances. Especially when WA refused to discuss the R before leaving. I just want to offer my support as I don't know that I can give you any good advice. I do agree w Puppy. And I know you have to co-parent w your W and therefore see her. I think you're on the right track to keep GALing, doing your music etc. Try not to read into what your W says (I know, so easy to say, so hard to do!!) Try reading that detachment article - I'm sure you've seen this before: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/ Her instability is creating so much stress for you. Please take care of yourself. ((((())))))
Thank you. Yeah, going through the settlement stuff I guess just brought up a lot of anger, that this isn't necessary. It's so easy to say that, though - obviously W thinks it is. I'm coming to thing that letting loose in therapy was somewhat self-indulgent, but be that as it may.
So, yes, struggling with detachment this week.
Here's what's resonating with me right now:
Originally Posted By: Bworl
The relationship that was developing between the two of you PRIOR to actually verbalizing getting serious about each other again was a good one. I may be in the minority here, but even with your wife involved with another, the two of cooperating and doing things that make life more normal for the kids is a good thing, regardless of the eventual outcome. ...
My suggestion would be to finalize the separation between the two of you. Make it legal, draw up the papers, settle the financials, sell the house, whatever. Continue moving in the direction of establishing your own lives. But don't resist the cooperation and kindness.
And this:
Originally Posted By: robx
Women Do Not Want A Man Who: 1. Wants to be mothered 2. Is needy and dependent 3. Has no back bone and can be walked all over 4. Is not positive 5. Cannot handle tension 6. Is aggressive and abrasive 7. Doesn’t know how to listen 8. Can’t understand women 9. Is not proactive 10. Has no life outside of the women he is with
Originally Posted By: robx
Women Want A Man Who Is: 1. Self Assured 2. Calm 3. Collected 4. Comfortable 5. Direct
A man may come in different packages and versions BUT the foundation is always the same. You need to understand why each of these traits is important to women.
So - if I may use a 2x4 on myself... it's time to grow up. I did talk to W last night, and told her that I'm sorry that I was harsh. Short conversation, that was about it.
We had lunch today actually, and I said to her, I think we do better when we have positive interactions. I talked to her about what I did last weekend, not about how things suck. We hugged when we left, I said Happy Valentine's Day, and she held on to me longer and said "I miss you."
Yes, Puppy is right. The OM business, whatever is going on there, isn't acceptable. My reaction to all this has not been level though. There's been an element of self-righteousness to it. Maybe even of punishing her.
So: 1) I do think that things are good, when we have good interactions. Bill's right - she started coming closer to me when we were doing things together and there was no "meaning" to it. 2) I still need to detach more. I've been doing this, but then again I have times where I and still greatly affected. Yeah, it's been rough and confusing since I've started posting again - W being inconsistent, settlement stuff, etc. The truth is - I've let her back-and-forth affect me much too much. 3) I want to be the man that I have in my mind's eye. The things on Rob's list fit. Don't want to give in to hurt, resentment, anger, etc. anymore. I'm a grown-up. 4) I really need to be clear to myself about what I want. Yeah, it's easy when things get tough to say "I didn't want this anyway," and when things might be just a little hopeful to say, "Oh my God, she's so hurtful."
So here's what I want: I want to feel good about myself, who I am, what I'm doing. The focus for this isn't on her. I'm not a victim of circumstance unless I allow myself to be.
OM is not important to WHO I AM.
It's time to be true to myself, not ruled by circumstances.
So where does that lead me in terms of what I want for the actual M/D? I don't think I'm saving this marriage. At least not now. If that opportunity actually came up, yeah - I don't want this to happen.
W will do what she will. I need to stop thinking about it.
Need to refine my thinking about this a bit, but I'm tired of W making me miserable. Ahhhh - that's a misleading phrase. I'm tired of making myself miserable about W.
I kind of like that I don't have a TV - they're reading a lot.
Took them over to the house both days, walked the dog; spent some time throwing the football. Took them to the bookstore yesterday.
Yeah, fully functional single parent - grocery shopping, meals, laundry, etc.
It occurs to me how much I'd depended on W for the overall structure, direction, etc. of the family.
Seems like before, a day with my W was a day fulfilled... even if we just sat around the house. Feels like I'm now searching for that daily "event" or something that makes the day worth something. In other words, I'm still adjusting. The boys are the focus now.
I did call her yesterday for a brief conversation, to say "Happy Valentine's Day." She had gone to Napa valley with her mother.
Talked to family and friends on the phone.
Just kind of exploring my thoughts and feelings - but I want to get to a point where this is all more than the days passing. The days don't feel painful anymore, that's good. But I still feel lonely and lacking real enthusiasm. I suppose I'll get there.
It occurs to me how much I'd depended on W for the overall structure, direction, etc. of the family.
Seems like before, a day with my W was a day fulfilled... even if we just sat around the house. Feels like I'm now searching for that daily "event" or something that makes the day worth something. In other words, I'm still adjusting. The boys are the focus now.
Quote:
Just kind of exploring my thoughts and feelings - but I want to get to a point where this is all more than the days passing. The days don't feel painful anymore, that's good. But I still feel lonely and lacking real enthusiasm. I suppose I'll get there.
Wow Bill, you are describing exactly how I'm feeling too. Your situation is very similar to mine in many ways.
My structure has completely gone out the window, and living with my parents I have a house full of ppl trying to push their structure on me. It's not working too well. I've been burying myself in work too much lately, need to lay off, but at the same time I have to get tons of work done. I am in school FT, work just recently went from FT to PT, and I work on computers on the side. The computer work seems to pile up when I'm busy with work or school - why can't ppl need it when I'm NOT doing those? Oh well, Murphy's law + life I suppose.
H28 | WAW24 | S8 | D5 | SD2 | D1 | T6 | M1 My Story | My Motivation
I am also functioning like a single mom powered on Oprah and soymilk! Funny thing is that the adjustment was fairly quick because when w and I were still together I still did a lot of the cooking, parenting, and playing. She works way too much and that is still what she does.
Last edited by v1olin; 02/15/1008:43 PM.
Me 35 Wife 34 Two daughters 8 years and 3 years Bomb 3/30/09 W filed 4/16/09 We met in'92 married in 2000 Divorce final
Well, making adjustments, right guys? We can do it.
So - in other news - I'm not proud of this at all, it's a violation of privacy, a little creepy and obsessive, and talk about trust issues to resolve... anyway, I continue to snoop on occasion. I'm not going to justify it.
This is a message my W recently wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, last night I was on the phone for about an hour with the Dish network people trying to get TV reception again. Bill ended up showing up in the middle of that, which was actually a good thing, as he was able to figure out what went wrong after problem solving for another hour. He was mad at me for not calling him in the first place and then afterward when I invited him to stay and watch a show with us he accused me of just wanting him around to fix stuff. I just can't win! I'm trying to do things on my own, but there is so much with the electronics that I just don't know and truly need help.
Yesterday, I also got in a fight with OM over the phone. I had sent him an e-mail saying that I was disappointed not to hear from him on Valentine's Day and he sent me an e-mail back basically saying that he did wish me a Happy V-Day on Friday when we spoke as I was driving to meet up with you, and that V-Day is one of those days that ruins a lot of relationships. I sent an e-mail back saying, "Seriously, that's your response.". I was mad. And he responded, "Yep" and basically said that what is going on between us may not be healthy since we are both in a bad space right now and that maybe we should just reconnect once we get our lives in order. I was heart broken to read that. I'll be damned if someone is going to break up with me (if you can call it that since we barely talk) over e-mail so I called him and told him he needed to do it in person. Well after talking a bit he told me that he had had a bad fight with his parents just moments earlier and that he feels like he is going to have a breakdown over all of the stress in his life. He is starting therapy Thursday. His game plan right now is to just cut everything non-essential out of his life in order to cope in survival mode. I don't understand how I end up being one of the things he pulls away from. For me, he has been a source of comfort. It really hurts my feelings, that for him, I seem to be a burden, even though he doesn't want to call it quits for good. He says he just wants space. I don't see how it is asking that much to just want him to call, e-mail, or text me. I wasn't asking for flowers and candy. I just wanted to know he was thinking about me. I'm afraid that he isn't good enough for me, and that he will always be letting me down. I know I should walk away from this as it doesn't look like he will have anything resolved in his life anytime soon, but I can't help my heart still wanting to be with him. I should just go back to Bill and give up on true love because my heart really just can't take it and at least Bill wants to spend time with me right now so badly.
What do you think?
I'll add to this that, she expressed a lot of gratitude that I did call her on Valentine's day to wish her a good day. We kissed a little last night, then she said that it made her mad that I now give her the attention that she wanted before. We did watch TV together last night.
Bill, I think our situations are very similar, and although I stopped snooping long ago, I'm sure my W has said similar things. I've pulled way back from my W. I refuse to be second choice. I'm happy and secure enough now that I'm willing to face the future without her. My W made a half hearted move to end it with OM, but she made it so clear how little she felt toward me that I said I was done and moving on. She got very angry and went running back to OM. I knew it was my only hope of ever getting the respect necessary if we were to ever try to reconcile.
I think our wives are similar in that they're both terrified of being alone.
Do you think her saying "I should just go back to Bill and give up on true love" is a slap in your face? Sounds like one to me.
I've been pondering a lot about the psychological dynamics at play in situations like ours, and I've come to realize that the foundation of what gucci and robx preach is that in order to elevate an emotion to "love" or "passion", there must be some fear of loss. It's the fear that digs deeper into the emotional subconcious and gets the feelings stirred up, perhaps mother nature's way of giving the most attention to that which could be lost. We want to think things like love are transcendent, not bound by primitive rules like that, but after reading so many of the situations, I'm convinced of it.
Our wives do value us at one level, but without the fear of loss, we're just their boring coparents and companions. My W has told me flat out that there is an emptiness inside her where I should be, and she just doesn't know why, and it frustrates her, but no matter how much she tries to feel something more for me, it's just not there. When we started dating and I was the one who was less vested in our R, she pursued me like crazy. No coincidence that the emptiness started after we had kids and I started behaving as though nothing would ever make me leave her and the kids. No matter how poorly she behaved, how selfish, how much she neglected me, I was a rock, absolutely devoted and committed. Poof! Attraction and passion gone. Now OM is the one whose involvement is at risk, and thus warrants her utmost emotional investment.
