Dani, allow me to share what worked and what didn't work for me.
The DB coach's/MWD's advice on simply ignoring the affair did NOT work. That simply allowed BF to cake eat. Of course he's not going to choose one woman when he can have two. Additionally it made me feel like crap knowing that I was being disrespected so horrendously and just sitting there taking it.
Eventually I decided I had enough. I told him I would not live in an open relationship. He continued to see OW so I put him out of the house and ended things. Then I completely focused on myself and immersed myself in GAL activities. I only communicated via email regarding business issues. This DID work. About five weeks after I put him out he said he wanted another chance. I told him no until he had stopped all contact with OW and was willing to do whatever it took.
So yes, you will receive conflicting advice. I advise you to read through and see what is working for others and use that in your own sitch.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
I am both flattered and comforted by the posts and your comments on my situation.
I will respond to some individually too.
Bottom line, this string represents what is going on in my head pretty much.
Well, quick update though H is not back from vacation.
I met with our couples counselor today (H would not be opposed) because of this situation. She did not know of the extend of the OW involvement in his life (such as tucking my son in etc.). Probably DBing too well there. The counselor was very confused because she thought we had both committed to working on the relationship (even left counseling because we were doing so well) and H has been so wonderful about time together and our "Date Nights" etc.. (H not dedicating any time to be together was a huge problem before, so again, this is fantastic progress.)
She agreed that there is no way you can rebuild a marriage with 3 people involved, and agreed that YES she is involved even if "just a friend". (She mentioned Shirly Glass and yes I have read the book.)
I told her I feel very confused and like I have hit a wall because I find it impossible to "get closer" in terms of rebuilding a marriage with H with this OW in the situation. This seems different than just doing hard stuff. It has been hard to ignore her involvement with my H for 3 years - but I did it. It has been hard to forgive my husband but I did it. It has been difficult to fully embrace my weaknesses and mistakes - but I did it.
This just does not feel like a challenge anymore, I feel exhausted. I feel this is impossible and it is very sad but feel at peace too. I am so sick of looking like a fool, feeling like she kisses my ass and H hiding her from me. I do feel less like a mistress now (H telling me not to text him because "people" might see it etc.) Her previous episodes of jealosy if H brought me a tea or something OW: "he didn't bring me anything??"....Everything just feels so wrong. I just feel disrespected and walked on now and don't want to tolerate it anymore. Not putting my foot down goes very much against my nature but I know I needed to do it for a while in order to get on better ground first.
The funny thing is whenever I take these really bold moves with H he seems to respond well. Respects me more? - Can anyone lend an opinion on that one???
Here is kinda the timeline of the past 3 weeks. 3 weeks ago - H wants things to work out between us if things keep going as they have, I bring up the fact that people are asking me if H is living with OW, he acknowledges that he needs to put distance there for us to work but he doesn't want to hurt her, says I can date other people. 2 weeks ago - H talks about moving and future houses to live in together (I did not bring it up) 1 week ago - H leaves on vacation with my son and OW (not sure if actually traveling together but v. possible) to visit his family. OW has conveniently becomes best friends with his sister (mutual friends and interests there, dance, shoes, handbags etc).
What I am doing is working in terms of shutting up and just having a great time with H (not dating but having a great time in life) - It is just a glacial pace. The fact that he acknowldged that space needs to be there for us to work is great. (Of course then going on vacation together is NOT great.)
I want to continue to be intimate wtih him but it so hard because I know OW has a promiscous history. I have a friend who lost their mother due to contracted disease from a spouse's infidelity so this hits a big nerve with me. While I was always okay to date more than one guy at a time, I only had sex in a monogamus relationship. I am told that sex is a powerful relationship building tool and believe me I LOVE sex but I am starting to feel weird about my own morals here because of this OW.
Okay, I am heading to bed because I barely make sense of all this when I am fully awake.
Does it come down to stating the options 1. Work on relationship = no OW 2. NO work on relationship = Divorce?
...or do I fidn the power from somewhere to give it more time??
Thank you all. I look forward to re-reading your posts.
I actually have started down this thought route because I recognized what a toll it is taking on me physically and mentally.
Every time my son states "daddy and OW" went to the park etc. is a punch in the gut. (I can take it if I have too but I guess you can only get hit so much before you hit back?) Then I go out with H, pretend nothing is wrong and have a fantastic time.
I called the counselor after hitting my head on the cabinet and then screaming "I hate your guts, you are a F**$cking whore" - to the cabinet mind you. I have since apologized as my cabinet has never done anything except dutifully hold my Honey Nut Chex.
I recognized that I really cannot have this in my life as it is not good for me - but also know that my son coming from a broken home is also not ideal and stressful too for life. Thank you very much for sharing your experience as I decide what I should do.
The thing is, not everyone on this forum agrees with the "Be Nice and he will come back" approach when an affair is taking place.
Michele is spot on with the standard wayward spouse who just wants to leave, but when there's an AFFAIR happening, many on this forum think quite differently.
YOUR CONDITION is one of the main reasons why we take this position. Fighting divorce is painful, but bearable. Fighting divorce AND someone deliberately trying to break you and your H up and put an end to your marriage is way too painful for most people to take over long.
Emotional pain will eventually take on a physical form - ulcer, head ache, exhaustion, etc... so when I say painful I mean in every sense of the word.
Myself and others on this forum have reccomended a MUCH different approach than "Be Nice and he will come back"... We reccomend
HIGH EXPOSURE ACTIVE PROTEST COMPLETE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL DETACHMENT
From a cursory scan of your thread it looks like you were using the Davis method rather than the method above.
Keeping in contact with your H, tolerating and befriending the OW, and generally not complaining about the affair and how painful it is isn't in my opinion effective. The only thing you are going to get by doing that is clinical depression and an ulcer.
Sorry, I do not mean any disrespect to MWD or her DB coaches, but affairs are very different animals than a WS.
1. You need to stop talking with OW
2. You need to ACTIVELY and LOUDLY PROTEST the AFFAIR your H is having. Yes, its an affair. By protest I mean you explain to everyone what he's doing AND educate them about how destructive and counterproductive affairs are to reconcilliation. My bet is your community of friends and family are not well educated on affairs. You have read Glass. NOW, its time to make EVERYONE ELSE know who Glass is as well. Reading the book is one thing, but protest means educating your community about what your H and the OW are doing to you and your marriage and your daughter. They are playing the "we're just friends" game and its time to put a stop to it.
You need to confront OW. Normally I would not reccomend this, but in your case you two have established a relationship and you need to clearly and resolutely change the terms of that relationship. You need to meet with her and tell her she is having an affair with your husband, that you are NOT there to argue semantics and listen to excuses. You tell her you want her to distance herself from you, your H, AND your family if she has any respect for you or your family. If she refuses, make it clear she is explicitly admitting to attacking your marriage AND refusing to stop. Then you march away and EXPOSE her refusal. Add fuel to the fire.
Next you tell your H that until he ends contact with OW that you will no longer be in contact with him until she's gone. You WILL be in family therapy discussing reconcilliation efforts on your part, and he is welcome to join you... AFTER she's gone.
Make sure your H has the contact info for your FT so he can make an appointment. Make it clear that if he wants to explore repairing his marriage your FT is who he contacts, not YOU.
Make it clear you do NOT even want to discuss any denial on his part that an emotional or physical affair is taking place. make it clear to him that she's a counterproductive and destructive influence and that he must make a CHOICE - his OW or his marriage and family. He' cannot have both ANYMORE. Then you leave. He WILL try to argue - just leave, don't entertain discussion on the matter. Even if he AGREES with you. Leave... words NOW mean NOTHING. Until she's gone, you don't talk to him, you just act.
Next you STOP contacting your H. You find an intermediary to bring your child to him and to pick your child up again. You do NOT contact him and you BLOCK any efforts he makes to contact YOU. Change your phone #, change your email, etc. Change the locks on your door. Change everything.
Keep up the protest and exposure to friends and family. Go to Family Therapy appointments, and enjoy your life. You don't have to deal with that pesky affair anymore since it is NOW beneath you.
This is a VERY different approach than MWD DB, but in my opinion this is much more effective and less harmful to yourself.
The approach above just more conforms with the "Last, Last Resort technique" of DB so you are not really straying far from DB in my mind - just a different part of it.
And yes, it is the phsyical toll it is starting to take on me that has got me to this point. - My body is just telling me, you need this out of your life at this point. You cannot live day to day with this and have your son confused when you fight tears as he tells you about his day. Divorce would be hard but at least I can be emotionally detaching instead of trying to reconnect admist all of this. (However it is tempered by the knowledge that this temporary crap is much better than a lifetime of crap - as in divorcing).
Last year this same "vacation" was not much more emotionally and physically straining than it was this year. (when we spoke about that trip H says they did not travel together). I do not want this to be repeated next year. This is plain stupid.
If I put my foot down, H will most likely choose us. This is going to sound extremely stupid but I hesitate to do it because I don't want to hurt him. What is wrong with me. I tell him if he goes to her house on Thanksgiving I will be hurt yet he does it anyway. He keeps hurting me so why do I care. Seriously, what is wrong with me that I still want to protect him? I know protection is my nature but really, I find myself in a situation where I am protecting him to my own detriment - does that sound like what I am doing?
I feel badly for him because he has few close friends (other than OW) and no close family. I know I cannot "force" husband to be friends with me. We are separated and he looks at us like we "where a couple who got divorced but then realized they could be together".
And again, our relationship is much better now than it has been since we got married. Basically, we got married and H checked out and was a work-a-holic. (I have learned about the love languages and understand this was not done to hurt me intentionally) I in turn did the same thing after years of crying and misery. I don't feel like we have ever been really married actually. That's not emotion fueled memories talking, I mean, we are coming up on 6 years and have never celebrated an anniversary. He has called and made a point to acknowledge the day each time during our separation.
H has also done many many other things for which I am grateful from car help to childcare etc. being there to talk and for time immediatly at my request. He really is a good guy, DB coach states that it is the fact that he is such a good guy that will make his breaking away from OW extremely difficult.
Thank you for your input, I am listening. I seem to read, walk away, process a little more and then come back again.
This whole things has been totally awful but I would not change it as bizzare as it sounds. I have learned a lot - and if it did not happen I would have never known why I was so sick and be on the road to recovery. So, I keep making good decisions and find some comfort in that.
I mean, I have gotten us to the point where H is talking about future of us together as a family...after being in Attorney's offices.
Off to get ready for the day. Thank you so much for your time and thoughts.
Being his friend and having sex with him isn't going to work. He'll never have to choose, and you will be forever spinning on the stick, being Choice #2.
If you DO have sex with him, for god's sake I HOPE YOU'LL USE PROTECTION.
Quote:
If I put my foot down, H will most likely choose us. This is going to sound extremely stupid but I hesitate to do it because I don't want to hurt him. What is wrong with me. I tell him if he goes to her house on Thanksgiving I will be hurt yet he does it anyway. He keeps hurting me so why do I care. Seriously, what is wrong with me that I still want to protect him? I know protection is my nature but really, I find myself in a situation where I am protecting him to my own detriment - does that sound like what I am doing?
OK, I suppose it is similar to last resort save for one important detail.
You in no way say or do anything to suggest you are giving up on your marriage.
Detaching from an ugly affair is NOT giving up on your marriage. you are protecting yourself from the person ATTACKING your marriage. This isn't in any way surrender. Consider it a tactical retreat - no more than that. And be SURE to make this clear to EVERYONE that your detachment does NOT mean you are surrendering your home or your marriage in any way. It just means the affair is unhealthy so you need to separate yourself from that. You aren't giving up on your marriage, you are removing yourself from the affair.
This is VERY important. OTHERS may mistake this as you giving up in which case the OW may pursue OM with a clear conscience. It's important that you make it clear to everyone that you WANT your marriage and your husband and family. There is a high risk of them being confused.
Regarding not wanting to hurt him :
The statistics on affair couples are dreadfully bleak. The success rate according to Phil McGraw is less than 1%. This means that if your H and OW do run away and even marry, it WON'T LAST. The OW will cheat on him or something of this sort... its textbook - affairs die eventually even if the couple thinks they have won - the AS always has the last laugh.
The damage unfortunately to your son, you, and your H is considerable. He will be miserable that yet another relationship has fallen short and he is possibly again a part time father to a second wife even.
YOU can SPARE HIM that pain by setting an example of good marital commitment. YOU can HELP HIM by PROTECTING your marriage, your family, AND HIM.
This woman is a THREAT to your marriage and YOUR HUSBAND's future as well. She is NOT good for him.
You aren't HURTING him by challenging this affair. You are protecting him. It's an act of love, not abuse.
When your son grows older and they start hanging around other boys who are a bad influence (violence, crime, etc) YOU will no doubt try to restrict him from exposing himself to that influence... its the SAME THING with your Husband. You are just trying to SAVE them a LOT OF GRIEF.
How is your letting him become a part time father, trash his marriage, and run away with this woman NOT hurting him? In my opinion he's hurting HIMSELF right now. You interfering with that to get him away from a destructive influence to his family is NOT HURTING HIM. If anything he will later thank you for taking an active role in saving your marriage.
He's under a VERY seductive influence right now and he needs your HELP.. not your indifference.
You actively challenging and putting an end to an affair is NOT HURTING HIM. YOU letting her DO this to your marriage IS hurting him...
Think about your family, think about what negative influences may be around to them (your husband and your son) and consider the OW and this affair to be one of them.. she's NOT helping your marriage at all...
If you arne't part of the solution... you're part of the problem... your H's marriage is in jeapoardy.. is the OW part of the solution?
Then get RID of her... how is that HURTING HIM?
Will he be mad that you took a stand?
Yes, he will throw a tantrum like a nasty alcoholic who just had his last bottle of vodka taken away from him. He will yell and scream and throw a nasty fit... IGNORE IT.
When your son has a fit, you don't cater to it... you just nod and wait it out.. you know he'll come around and he's working through him simply NOT GETTING WHAT HE WANTS.
Challenging your H into NOT getting what he wants is NOT hurting him... its what he needs... a grown up adult example of commitment to follow.
so this hits a big nerve with me. While I was always okay to date more than one guy at a time, I only had sex in a monogamus relationship. I am told that sex is a powerful relationship building tool and believe me I LOVE sex but I am starting to feel weird about my own morals here because of this OW.