I remember you. Back in the days of Corri, Hairdog, and Mojo and Honeypot. OG Lou and Karen. I remember and I'm back, too. I'm not sure if I'm more cynical or just more realistic. I'm certainly older. I've done a lot of thinking and would like to share with you some of my conclusions. Marriage Counseling ... I was looking for a referee. I wanted someone to tell my wife that she had to have sex with her husband. I never did get my wife to go to counseling, but I did go myself. The counselor said my wife did not feel sufficiently empowered. I thought what a bunch of bull. W holds all the cards, all the power. But the counselor was right. Funny thing, though, you can't empower someone. You can, however, step out of the way. W wanted a new, bigger house. I said we can't afford it (we can't). I said we can't take care of it (we can't). I said we don't need it (we don't). But she wanted it. I stepped aside. We moved. She's happier, now that she has her new toy. As I listened to the posters back in the day, I felt that some made much ado about very little. There was talk about setting boundaries. There was a good deal of self-pity. I came to the conclusion that people do indeed change, but that the change has little to do with one's own efforts. In also learned that no doesn't always mean no. W and I ML yesterday. It was great. She sent the kids to a sleepover. She drank an extra glass of wine. We were snuggling (we almost never sleep together). She made one excuse after another, but she didn't push me away like usual. I would say we ML 8 times a year. This is not enough to provide sufficient nourishment, but I would say that we are no longer "sex-starved." Very lean, though. I have managed to control my resentment over the issue. This has helped me greatly. W still throws tantrums, but they don't last as long as they used to. In a way, I have come to see it as a sign that she trusts me not to leave. She has no idea how close I came!
Hey, nice to see a familiar face (yeah, with the attendant sorrow at seeing we're both still here). I fondly remember all those folks, and the Daves as well. What you say is very true. One reason I stayed away from here the past few years is because it sort of became like a drug, I couldn't trust exactly why I was here. I'm sure some part of me wanted to join the pity-party and have someone tell me it's gonna be okay, and some part of me wanted to watch the show. I do recall, however, that there was a lot of genuine support, and a lot of really great advice.
Like you, I'm now older, and probably not much wiser, but I am definitely more ready to take responsibility for what I want. I will readily admit that I'm as much responsible for my current sitch as W is. I've been every bit as good at avoidance behaviors as she has, and probably for many of the same reasons. I just was NOT ready to risk it all to take a stand. I do think I am ready for that now. As far as what's the C for? No, I don't need a referee, but since we've been on autopilot again for the past few years, and our past two efforts with counselors were unsatisfactory, I guess I just want one more kick at the can, just so I can say I did indeed try everything. Maybe that's cowardly, I dunno. Truth is, there's a BIG part of me even now that's scared that it'd be a HUGE mistake to end the marriage before I'm REALLY sure there's nothing else to do. I'll also admit that if I were reading those words written by someone else, I'd probably be quick to say "No-brainer, Bro..." especially knowing all the history. The past few weeks, while waiting for this next session, I've been going back and reviewing the past 10 years, and I really am starting to feel like a chump for hanging on. The pattern really becomes evident in hindsight, and it's not pretty.
As for resentment, that's the funny thing - I don't sit around and dwell on it or mope around. If we have a "real" moment, where we're being ourselves with each other, it doesn't get in the way. But when she once again confirms that she just doesn't see sex as important to her in any way, then yeah, I do feel it, and I do allow myself some bitterness, but that's why I don't spend much time dwelling on it as a rule. But I can easily see how it could destroy me, if I let it, so I won't. That's why I've got to hold out this time for the marriage I ultimately want, without compromise, knowing there may be no marriage at the end, at least with this woman.
Coun. session #2 tonight, interesting. More interesting what happened on the way home. One thing, we're not allowed any TV for the next 30 days. I can tell you that there will be at least a **little** cheating on that, but I'm determined to abide "almost" completely by it, more than W, that's for sure. Anyway, I really think this C is wise, and has a lot of good stuff for us. I do hope we'll take full advantage of what he has to offer. More tomorrow.
Anyway, he started off reading through our "We" vision exercise from last time, and we talked a bit about that. He asked us each how we felt about it, and the exercise, and explained that it's a living document, meant to be reviewed on a regular basis, and updated from time to time, just like a corporate mission statement or strategic intent statement. In addition, we're to make a firm weekly "date" to spend the time it takes to read it aloud with each other, and also post it on the fridge, the bathroom mirror, etc. Just like a corporate mission statement. I can't remember exactly how we got onto the next topic, but suddenly he was asking me about my childhood family and those dynamics. We talked a bit about how Dad treated me, and what Mom was like, and he drew parallels between the fact that I had a hard time being heard by my parents as a child, and the difficulty I've had in communicating with W. We also talked a bit about methods by which each of us can connect with the other - for example, he asked me what would make me feel most loved, and of course I answered "physical affection and closeness", and of course W's answer was "to have me do things for her, or to help more around the house". He then mentioned that if she observes me being attentive to her needs, like doing the dishes or other chores (and it makes her feel more loved), she should respond by giving me a hug and kiss, instead of just saying "Thank you." Pretty basic stuff, but pretty powerful, potentially.
The real kicker was when I described a typical evening, where we sit like zombies in front of the TV, she falls asleep, and I'm basically alone. THAT led him to challenge us to go without TV for 30 days - cold turkey. As soon as he said that, I'm thinking, "[censored]! Why did I have to mention TV???", lol. On the way home, W was feeling rather incredulous and intimidated at the thought of absolutely NO TV for 30 days, what with the Olympics coming up and everything. I should mention that lately, we've both gotten quite interested in a number of shows, and Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights have been really big TV nights for us (Desperate Housewives, The Middle, Modern Family, Cougartown, Biggest Loser, How I Met Your Mother, Two and a Half Men, The Big Bang Theory). Plus, a couple years ago when the writers were on strike, we "survived" by watching season 1 and 2 of Lost on DVD, and finished just in time for Season 3, and we've been faithful watchers ever since. And last night was the second episode of the Last Season. Not to mention the last episode of The Jay Leno show. Anyway, W was pretty nonplussed, but I said if we cheap-out about THIS, then how will we avoid cheaping out on the really HARD stuff? We might just as well save our money on the counseling, because it isn't going to work if that happens. It was only a 10-minute drive home, but I initially agreed that we could make an exception for Lost, at least.
So last evening we did watch Lost, and I felt pretty bad about it, and worse about it this morning when I woke up. W had to leave about halfway through the episode to pick up S18 from the bus (he had a late evening at University), so I taped it, and I was all set to watch the rest of it with her, but she didn't sit down, so I watched Leno instead. D26 was also watching, and it would have been somewhat awkward if I'd simply said "No, we've decided not to watch TV for the next month." Anyway, the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was another violation of my integrity, and this morning when I woke up, I decided I was NOT going to watch any more TV for the next 30 days, I'm going to commit completely to the process we've begun, because to do anything else is to admit that a) I don't really buy into the process (and this is costing me $90/session), and b) my marriage really isn't more important than what's on TV. So for my own sake, I have to draw a line in the sand and give myself completely to this process and just see what happens. What W decides to do is up to her, and I will indeed be very interested to see if she rises to the challenge. I'm not going to nag her about it, or mope or fume, or argue about it, I'm just going to observe, and do what I need to do. And the "We" vision is going to be posted on the bathroom mirror, and the fridge, and of course the kids are going to see it and ask about it, and I'll say W and I have decided to work on our marriage. We've even decided not to continue hiding the C sessions from them, but to present it as a positive thing that we're doing to make our marriage better. That can only be a good thing, if we present it properly.
I was also somewhat ambivalent about the approach of V-day, wondering what I could/should do, if anything. Like should I get her a card, or (given what we're going through, and have been for years) if that would seem lame. But in light of the knowledge that her major LL is Acts of Service (really, REALLY no surprise to me), I've decided to give her a REAL gift, of myself. I'm going to make up a series of coupons, with acts of service on them, that she can present to me at any time, in any situation, and I will follow through. These are going to be things like "Clean the bathrooms", "Vacuum the house", "Fold the laundry" etc., and some of them will be WAY outside my comfort zone, such as "Plan and prepare an entire meal" (she will immediately recognize THAT one as being COMPLETELY out of character for me, as I NEVER cook). Along with these will be a card, containing my commitment to actively looking for ways I can do things for her that will help her see how much I love her, and I will act on that commitment. It will be very interesting to see how this goes over. I intend to keep it up at least for the 30-day no-TV commitment period, just to see what effect it has. I'm also going to get that Love Languages book and read it (it's one of the few I haven't yet read).
Our next session is about 3 weeks away, and it'll be really interesting to see how things go during that time. I will journal about it here. In fact, that's one thing I just realized this week - that by posting here as regularly as I did between '03 and '06, I was keeping a journal of sorts, and I can go back and refer to that, and use it to gauge progress, and remind myself of what hasn't worked in the past. I do realize the only person I can change is me, and I have at least a short-term plan now for doing that. A sense of purpose can go a long way, and there's a sense of freedom in giving myself over to the process and trusting the C knows what he's doing. I feel like I'm either on the verge of watching everything I've worked for and dreamt of all my life dissolve before my eyes, or I'm on the verge of the most amazing adventure ever. Either way, it won't be boring. I really hope W will rise to the challenge.
nd some of them will be WAY outside my comfort zone, such as "Plan and prepare an entire meal" (she will immediately recognize THAT one as being COMPLETELY out of character for me, as I NEVER cook).
Why not just do that for V day? I've never had much success with the coupon thing in the past. To me, it comes across as 'I'm not thoughtful enough to do something real - so you need to nag me to do it.' Ultimately actions mean a lot and words mean very little. Just my 2c though. She wants you to DO things for her - not talk about things you're going to do.
You may be right, but I will also be attentive each day to things I can do, and doing them, so I guess I'm planning to do it both ways. With the coupons, she gets a chance to give me a "please do it now", which I think might be something she'd like, although if I'm doing my job, she may not feel the need to use them...
...So for my own sake, I have to draw a line in the sand and give myself completely to this process and just see what happens. What W decides to do is up to her, and I will indeed be very interested to see if she rises to the challenge.
...And the "We" vision is going to be posted on the bathroom mirror, and the fridge, and of course the kids are going to see it and ask about it, and I'll say W and I have decided to work on our marriage. We've even decided not to continue hiding the C sessions from them, but to present it as a positive thing that we're doing to make our marriage better. That can only be a good thing, if we present it properly.
...I've decided to give her a REAL gift, of myself. I'm going to make up a series of coupons, with acts of service on them, that she can present to me at any time, in any situation, and I will follow through. These are going to be things like "Clean the bathrooms", "Vacuum the house", "Fold the laundry" etc., and some of them will be WAY outside my comfort zone, such as "Plan and prepare an entire meal" (she will immediately recognize THAT one as being COMPLETELY out of character for me, as I NEVER cook).
....I'm also going to get that Love Languages book and read it (it's one of the few I haven't yet read).
Congratulations on your therapy session and your commitment to the process!
Also +1 on Chapman's the Five Languages of Love. It along with the SSM, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Hold Me Tight and a few others really impressed me and helped me better understand what was going on.
Make sure you are both absolutely 100% behind sharing your therapy vision statement with your kids. An alternate would be to put it in a wallet card you each carry. Not as good, but I don't know your wife's sensitivity.
As to coupons to do household chores as acts of service. I would like to just urge a little bit of caution. Coupons for acts of service, might or might not go over (in my opinion) depending upon the "motives" you wife assumes in your gift of them to her. My fear in giving those as a Valentine's Day gift, would be that they could make her feel like she needs to remind you to perform acts of service and the statement of love that your acts of service coupons represent are temporary and will expire when coupons are all used up.
An alternate suggestions would be to give her un-requested acts of service that she can recognize as extra special. For example, do what group of household chores you can and then something extra special for just the weekend:
get up early on Saturday or Sunday and get your wife's car washed/waxed/vacuumed or detailed;
do the unplanned meal, like was suggested, but tell her in advance so she doesn't have something planned where the food will spoil;
give her a coupon at a salon for something that will allow her to feel sexy or pretty-but not overtly sexual (examples are peticure/manicure, massage. etc.).
If you do give he a card (I think it is a good idea), a "killer phrase" I saw in a relationship discussion might be...."Let's stop fighting. I really love you. I know what you need in this marriage. I'm gonna try my best to give it to you. If you're not getting what you want let me know what I could do better …"and I really appreciate you and I'm glad I married you."
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Actually, yes, I have reconsidered the AOS Card idea, it might be a lot more special if I simply make Sunday "Her Day", and seek to do everything for her, all day. At least to the best of my ability. On Sundays, she usually makes something like pancakes, waffles, etc. for breakfast, on V-day it's likely that she'll get croissants or something instead. I'll suggest it just to make sure. Then for the rest of the day, I'll be in charge of cleaning up, making supper, cleaning up, etc. Plus a nice Valentines card. All of that together probably adds up to a good baby-step that doesn't go off the deep end into unbelievability, and doesn't demand anything in return. And then, of course, continuing with my commitment to look for ways to make her feel loved by doing things for her, again with no expectation other than to make her feel loved.
Also, I have to give W credit, so far she has not voiced any misgivings about the C, even though she has indeed expressed misgivings about our no-TV assignment. And in-session, she takes responsibility for her own contributions to our sitch, at least so far, although she is also so far unwilling to face some truths about her birth family. She characterizes her birth home as unremittingly warm and loving, all sweetness and light, yet she's always been afraid of her own shadow, and reacts very badly to raised voices, so the evidence suggests otherwise. But still, she's been a trooper so far...
Well, evening 1 of the new regime went pretty well. Soon as I got home, I saw a couple of baskets of laundry, which I folded (over W's mild objections), and got a nice hug and kiss in return. I also checked the kitchen when W wasn't looking, and tidied up, emptied the drainboard, and ran the dishwasher, because it was full, and we wouldn't have had enough dishes for supper, and no room to put more dishes in after. Then I sat down and read a book for a while. W prepared supper (tacos), and after supper we had an epic game of Trivial Pursuit that lasted 2 hours. Lots of fun. Now it's just about time for bed (no, get your mind out of the gutter - I mean to sleep). Typed up the Vision Statement also. It reads pretty well. I may post it here tomorrow. Nice evening, even without TV...
