First, I am going to say Bworl is very wise. It is very important to be open all the advise, then to respond by making the best choice for you at that time. That way there are no regrets.
Originally Posted By: Bworl
...And some of these things are going to be contrary to the prevailing "Be a Man" theme that you've been hearing from many so far....
Augment may be a better word than contrary.
Mike, during this period of your life, you will be defining who you are as a man. Pick and chose what works for you. It is better to have a broad range of tools to pick from and use the right ones at the right time.
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...more harmful to a wife than a husband who persistently turns to pornography and self-pleasure.
A real man knows how to postpone his gratification until he completely satisfies his wife. She will gladly return the favor. I strongly recommend reading the books I recommended in an earlier post.
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Understand every single time that you get uppity and holier than thou about your wife and her online sexual fantasy with this new friend that IN HER MIND you have been having little sexual flings with other women for as long as you have been married. The fact that no physical contact was involved does NOT change the fact that you received physical pleasure from another person.
Very wise words.
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I wonder sometimes if the "throw her to the curb" folks would be willing to advise a woman like your wife to throw someone like you or me to the curb just as quickly.
I have read so many different POV. Tolerating irresponsible behavior never works. Effectively communicating with boundaries works. Go see what worked for Britt54. Today was a good day for her.
In a marriage there should be no tit for tat on things like this. Your indiscretions do not give her the right (or even the obligation) to do something similar. My ex didn't get this one right either.
One person needs to stop keeping score. This person is you Mike. You need to do what works. If talking with W is working keep doing that. It is all about being aware if things are getting better or worse. All you can control is your thoughts, words and actions. Your wife is free to respond however she needs to.
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In her frustration and weariness of dealing with your issues for so long, she has convinced herself that she DESERVES the opportunity to explore her sexuality with another. This is definitely WRONG.
Agreed. It is not you job to control her. It is your responsibility to communicate what you feel about things and what you will tolerate.
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I would say that you have a choice to make here. And despite what others have told you, I think it has very little to do with you "being a man." I would suggest in fact that you've been "being a man" by focusing on yourself and what you wanted for far too long.
Being a man is doing what works. Being a man is doing the right thing. You can do what the OM is doing to wife. If she will tell you, you can change your behavior. I am sure he is giving her attention. Test and see if attention to your wife works. But I want to warn you, If you give her attention to win her and not because you want to just because, it may push her farther away.
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I believe it is time for another honest conversation with your wife. If the two of you are serious about continuing together even in the face of your serious issues, all for the benefit of your son, then that will require a committment. That committment is that the two of you will remain uninvolved physically or emotionally with any other members of the opposite sex.
Agreed. Lots of work from both sides.
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Do not bring them to her attention. In fact, if the issues are resolved between the two of you concerning other people, I would do my best to leave your wife alone. You should provide transparency regarding your previous bad habits - give her a way to verify that they are no longer taking place. She, similarly, must provide transparency to you that she is no longer playing with another.
"The love dare" is a good book.
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Work on yourself. Do not put pressure on her to accept you back as husband. Allow her to see your changes and be attracted to them again.
Change is the name of the game. Actions speak louder than words. Make the change for you.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
No, the addiction to porn and masturbation has always been a problem. What was first sporadic led to a few straight late nights in the home office turned into a nightly event of watching 8-12 news shows on MSNBC/FOX and then late night stuff.
as for her online affair....
I think my wife is getting off on the idea of being able to express herself in an open environment without a care in the world for having to be honest, inhibited, encumbered by anything right now. She is a free woman and is experiencing feeling she has not felt in years. She hasn't slept with the guy and only knows his image from being friends with him 20 years ago.
She doesn't even have a current picture of the guy.
Its a cyber-affair and yes, it is crossing the line. She will assuredly follow through on it as well but at this point, we are "seperated" and living together to figure out what we mean to each other.
She will do it and I will be moving on with some local women who have a story to tell that might be interested in hearing from a good looking guy.
Its all about the chase at this point in time and for once, I don't have to take the shortest paths between two points.
Sounds to me that when you hear someone spouting advice you don't agree with, you tend to tell that person they sound angry and jaded.
The angry part is partially correct, but only in the sense that I am finding thread after thread where NEW people are being advised to become assholes and kick their cheating spouses to the curb, with little to no thought as to what the whole picture of their story is.
This guy has a chance to save his marriage. But not if he becomes a jerk like you all suggest.
Call me what you want.
For what it's worth, I am a happily married man with two wonderful sons and three amazing step children. No jaded man here.
Blessings,
Bill
No one is advised to be an a$$hole, in fact I tend to put that part in with most of my posts, ie. "you don't need to be a$$hole"
I sensed anger in your post and I called you on it, plain & simple and you agreed that there was some anger.
No big deal, not enough to waste time & energy on this.
Women lose attraction for their men because those men exhibit unattractive behaviors and men fearing the loss of their women become weak, needy, insecure, wussy and pretty much feminine and very unattractive.
My advice to men is to exhibit attractive behaviors and stop being weak & wussy like.
Read my posts, I have never said "beat your women" all I've said is that when women treat men horribly, men need to stand up for themselves.
No, the addiction to porn and masturbation has always been a problem. What was first sporadic led to a few straight late nights in the home office turned into a nightly event of watching 8-12 news shows on MSNBC/FOX and then late night stuff.
You were jerking off over 4 hours a night to FOX news?
God bless your wife. Let her have her fantasy, she f'ing deserves it. Buy her the plane ticket to California.
I still stand by what I said earlier, get out there start meeting some people. Maybe your wife has been the problem all along.
[quote=Bworl]Rob, Women lose attraction for their men because those men exhibit unattractive behaviors and men fearing the loss of their women become weak, needy, insecure, wussy and pretty much feminine and very unattractive.
This is the single most powerful thing that I have grown to learn from this board.
When I am negative, I am rephrasing it as - crap, I have lost what I once considered precious. Darnit.
When I am positive, I am rephrasing it as - you mean I get to have some fun again - to learn what it is to have fun - to learn what it is that I like to do to have fun?
Thats not to say I am going to pick up a stranger fantasy and look to run before I crawl - no, I realize this isn't about being 17 again.
It is a time to learn a language of love and I have to admit, it does sound appealing.
Women lose attraction for their men because those men exhibit unattractive behaviors and men fearing the loss of their women become weak, needy, insecure, wussy and pretty much feminine and very unattractive.
My advice to men is to exhibit attractive behaviors and stop being weak & wussy like.
Read my posts, I have never said "beat your women" all I've said is that when women treat men horribly, men need to stand up for themselves.
And I'll always stand by that advice.
Hell yeah!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
But if your plan is to respond to her wrong actions, with wrong actions of your own...well, that makes no sense.
Again, this should not be tit for tat.
Your wife either agrees to stop the online relationship, or the two of you SHOULD be talking about formally ending the relationship - at least the cohabitation part.
This is either a cooling off period of peace and mutual abstinence, or it's simply the prelude to an official separation. My undersstanding was that your wife was at least a little bit open to a cooling off period.
If that's not the case, then for me all bets would be off.
It doesn't change what you personally are working on. But it does change the living arrangements, or at least would for me.
I can see nothing to be gained by you pursuing other women for any reason. As you mentioned before I think, you know you are attractive - you have been pursued in the past. Learning how to communicate and be the husband/man you should be does not require a new woman in your life.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I had said before, I have had very little interaction with women in anything other than a business sense all of my life.
I know how to talk but its usually on the end of a sales proposal that I am trying to demonstrate ROI on so that you sign the contract or buy my product.
How else do I overcome my lack of experience communicating with a woman but going out on a few dates?
I had said before, I have had very little interaction with women in anything other than a business sense all of my life. I know how to talk but its usually on the end of a sales proposal that I am trying to demonstrate ROI on so that you sign the contract or buy my product.
Haven't read your thread Mike, but in answer to your question... you treat yourself as the product to be sold. With that you need to demonstrate how the product will:
1) Meet your needs 2) Get the job done 3) What their ROI will be if they purchase.
At the end of the day it's all about your marketing. To your spouse (i.e the market) via 180's, GAL, identification of self-value and projection of perceived value.
