You're married to Miss Independent! Doesn't need a husband. Doesn't need an exclusive package. Your wife's a challenge again. Some free thinking, free lovin girl to try and get into bed again. A little like when you first met her. Yet, a little different now; But still, an interest, a challenge, a game...
But, then, so are the millions of other pretty ladies out there your age. and younger. and older. and prettier and of different ethnicities and all of them with less baggage then your old lady.
She wants to find her sexual being, needs to find herself, wants learn how to discern the difference between her spiritual and sexual energy with someone else. Great. So does everyone else. Same rules apply to you then.
Same rules apply to you.
The way I read this thread is your wife has asked for a free pass Open Marriage. Kind of just like the guys around here who have been told, "If you want to have sex get yourself a girlfriend."
Personally, I'd dare to find out just how serious she is about this new life plan of hers. See what kind of reaction she gives you when you start dating someone 10 -15 years younger then her that doesnt require a paycheck to go see. or even better someone spending money partying you up and then is driving you to pick up your car the next morning. Sure alot the better than cyber-sex.
I read that the number one sexual fantasy amongst a group of interviewed women was sex with a stranger. I wouldnt doubt that is true amongst a larger population also. If your life is affected by this sexual desire of females, then it is your obiligation as a stranger to take advantage of it. I would think your wife is up for the challenge; she placed a big enough challenge before you. Have fun with it.
Originally Posted By: Albert Camus
We stared at each other without blinking, and everything came to a stop there between the sea, the sand, and the sun, and the double silence of the flute and the water. It was then that I realized that you could either shoot or not shoot.
The MC reinforced what everyone is saying here - it is time to find yourself and the time is now.
He also told us that was are premature for marriage counseling until we have a chance to experiment and see what evolution our beings go through.
We made a follow-up appt in 1 month with him.
As for my response this morning....
I think it is both the thing for me to understand and the thing that is understood the least by me.....the fine line between a man and a guy.
I was strong this morning but to the point of being a bit overpowering. It was a forced fit for me to be comfortable with my detachment or even positive about/for my detachment. It was almost a matter of me showing her - the only through this is for me to become detached and then fall into silent negative guy.
How does one become comfortable with detachment? What exercises promote this? Is it a matter of strong self-worth and security that allows a person to detach but still care enough about the other person?
As I sat here re-reading the previous post, I thought to myself, yeah, go chase some skirts and see what trouble you can razzle up..
And then I realized - I have never chased a woman - they have always chased me.
Three girlfriends in my life - each asked me out and each went 2/3+ years. I have slept with 15-20 women but typically fell into those sloppy drunk or through perfect timing.
What resources do I look at to teach myself the chase.
I don't suffer from gender issues and have never questioned my sexuality or love of the female body but I can honestly say, holding a conversation with businessmen about their critical business problems is a lot more comfortable for me than picking up a woman at a bar.
This is counter-intuitive, but the right thing to do: "I have decided that I will not share my wife with another man. I want all communications with him to stop. I want complete transparency. If you will not agree to this, I will consider all my options including D."
Mike....this is the best advice that you've been given in this thread so far. Go back and read ReadyforChange's first post.
Been there, done that, yada yada. Arriving here now is great. Stop the hemorrhage. Stop the pain. Learn the do's and do not's.
This forum is both pain and delight Mike. You will find great support, love, help and compassion. You will also be lulled into thinking that the longer you wait, a bolt of lightening will come down and one day your W will tell you what a terrible mistakek she made, she loves you and wants to live happily ever after.
NOT.
Although our goal here is to help you save your marriage, we all do not live with you. We can't see your wife...her face. We can't hear her inflections in her voice.
YOU DO!
Having an affair is NOT OK. Living under the same roof while OM is in the picture is NOT OK. DO NOT BE PARALYZED BY FEAR TO DRAW A BOUNDARY. As said above by R2C, it is counterintuitive but shows you to be strong. Think about the opposite....a pervasive thing that happens on this board. What does your wife think of you as you hang around, forgiving her and wanting her back while she is carrying on an affair. Does it show that you are in touch with being a man? I think not.
Stay strong. Keep your head up. You have a great gift now Mike. You have been given the gift of looking inward, looking at yourself analytically and saying I can be better, stronger, faster. Make those changes now. You worked with the tools that you were given as a child. Now, it's time to upgrade to Stanley (or Craftsmen if you prefer).
I strongly recommend the following books to add to your armamentarium: 1) Hold Onto Your N.U.T.S by Levine 2) No more Mr. Nice Guy 3) Venus and Mars Starting Over 4) sign up for the newsletters at making her happy dot com
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
And another change Mike..if women chased you through your life yada yada, then, it's time for YOU to find a woman...to choose...to love. Their pursuit may have been for the wrong reasons. Did your wife pursue you??? FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
The more you need a person Mike, the more difficult it is to detach. Detaching, then, disrupts a need. We should be with our wives NOT because we need them but because we PREFER to be with them...we DESIRE to be with them.
By looking at yourself and asking WHY you need her...may help you to disassociate the need and allow you to detach.
If you read the Mars/Venus book above, it will help you do that. It was one of the KEY books that helped me to detach and understand detachment. Grieving is key. By understanding that the M is going to change...that what you had 10 years ago is over (and we hope that it will metamorphosis into a saved M)..it allows you to let go of that. I can't tell you how critical this 'grieving' is to helping you move forward.
In almost the majority of cases here where people have saved their M, it occurs when the LBS says an inner goodbye and let's go of the rope.
Think.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Let me see if I have the situation understood correctly. Please let me know if I have it wrong Mike.
You are the sole breadwinner. You are successful at your work and you have provided financially for your family very well.
By a consensus decision, you as a couple decided that your wife would become a stay at home Mom so that she could be there for your child.
You have an issue with masturbation (perhaps porn/mast?) that leads you to isolate yourself from your wife late at night (and other times when possible?).
You admittedly have been someone who puts your needs first, and over those of others, including your wife and child.
This dynamic continued and perhaps even crystalized over the course of your marriage.
At some point your wife looked for connection with another person. It began as just a social connnection, but probably quickly moved in an intimate direction as your wife began to accept just how isolated she felt from you through the years.
When the revelation was brought out in the open, you were shocked, surprised, but also willing to admit that she was pretty much spot on with her assessment of you as father and husband.
Together you chose to continue living together because together you decided that this would be better for your son than moving quickly to a divorce.
Is that about right?
Now, here's where I have some things to say to you. And some of these things are going to be contrary to the prevailing "Be a Man" theme that you've been hearing from many so far.
There are few more destructive male bad habits than pornography/masturbation. Short of an ongoing series of actual physical affairs, I'm not sure that there is any non-violent thing that is more harmful to a wife than a husband who persistently turns to pornography and self-pleasure.
I know this because you are telling my story.
I did the same with my first wife. She tolerated the occasional "discoveries" for over 20 years before she eventually gave up and quit.
Understand every single time that you get uppity and holier than thou about your wife and her online sexual fantasy with this new friend that IN HER MIND you have been having little sexual flings with other women for as long as you have been married. The fact that no physical contact was involved does NOT change the fact that you received physical pleasure from another person.
I wonder sometimes if the "throw her to the curb" folks would be willing to advise a woman like your wife to throw someone like you or me to the curb just as quickly.
In a marriage there should be no tit for tat on things like this. Your indiscretions do not give her the right (or even the obligation) to do something similar. My ex didn't get this one right either.
In her frustration and weariness of dealing with your issues for so long, she has convinced herself that she DESERVES the opportunity to explore her sexuality with another. This is definitely WRONG.
The problem is, you do not have the credibility to say that to her.
I would say that you have a choice to make here. And despite what others have told you, I think it has very little to do with you "being a man." I would suggest in fact that you've been "being a man" by focusing on yourself and what you wanted for far too long.
You and your wife made a mutual decision to remain together for your son. I think that is an honorable decision. Many, many marriages have had periods were the close intimacy was lacking for some reason. Historically couples were even forced into marriages where no love was established, and eventually became full, vibrant marriages.
This is the state the two of you have chosen, together, to enter.
The rub is your wife's desire to continue exploring with others. This cannot be allowed. On that I agree whole heartedly with the others.
I believe it is time for another honest conversation with your wife.
If the two of you are serious about continuing together even in the face of your serious issues, all for the benefit of your son, then that will require a committment. That committment is that the two of you will remain uninvolved physically or emotionally with any other members of the opposite sex.
You will stop the masturbation/porn.
She will stop immediately the ongoing fantasy emailing.
You will continue to get yourself right. You will do whatever it takes to become the proper man that you always intended to be. Living in the same home, your wife will have ample opportunity to see your changes.
Do not bring them to her attention. In fact, if the issues are resolved between the two of you concerning other people, I would do my best to leave your wife alone. You should provide transparency regarding your previous bad habits - give her a way to verify that they are no longer taking place. She, similarly, must provide transparency to you that she is no longer playing with another.
Work on yourself. Do not put pressure on her to accept you back as husband. Allow her to see your changes and be attracted to them again.
Just my take.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Mike, I could have been your wife. My husband lived most of our marriage the same way you have. Fortunately we are working on things now, but I can concur that living a sexless marriage with a husband that was masturbating to porn was an excruciating experience. Although he told any who would listen that his marriage and family came first, my observation was that it was NEVER the marriage. I was in line after :
Let me see if I have the situation understood correctly. Please let me know if I have it wrong Mike. . . trimmed to save a few trees . .
Work on yourself. Do not put pressure on her to accept you back as husband. Allow her to see your changes and be attracted to them again. Just my take. Blessings, Bill
Spot on Bill and thanks for your candor.
I remember telling myself at 15 - why would I need a girlfriend when I can get off to porn? Oh what a profound affect that would have on my life.
I am now a recovering masturbator. I have not self-pleasured myself in a 10+ days now and I am not looking back. Its disgusting to me now.
I have given that up with no quarter given by my wife so to exchange the two would not be doable.
She is going to take time for herself to find herself the same way she is imploring me to do the same thing. She told me over lunch today - I am rooting for you because I don't want to go into the dating world to have to pick up as a single mother. I want you to find who you are so we can build a stronger more meaningful relationship. The guy I know, though, is not capable of that."
I am not going to have any barganing power until I make myself attractive to her. Which means being confident, happy, doing things which I wouldn't normally do, play and work with my son every day, go for weekend trips and maybe even go out on a date a few nights.
Then, I have the ability to trade off - right now if I did it, she would say, go ahead, do it, you cannot hurt me anymore.
