Marriage Downgraded to Good Friends on 2/5/10

[robx]

Just to be clear....
When I put my foot down to say either him or me, we evolved our relationship to a point where she said, "I want more out of my man and I shouldn't have to settle".

Just to be clear, you put your foot down, she stood up, knew that you weren't serious (because you aren't, you still have an open relationship with her) and step on your foot or more appropriately kicked it out of the way because it was taking up space used by her foot when she PUT HER FOOT DOWN and told you that she's not settling.

And you stepped back to your comfortable place because she's making the decisions, she has the power and you just get to listen to her when she makes these decisions. You tried to stand up to her (I give you points for the attempt) but then you stepped back when she tested you and you folded when she called your bluff (take my points back).

She wants a masculine man and she's right, why should she settle, you aren't it apparently.

Just to be clear.

[robx]

""She wants the trappings of the stay at home mother life but she wants to be able to explore herself as an individual - to reconnect as a human being with other human beings."

This phrase is what I meant wasn't cake eating. Having the OM is. I was just referring to the phrase which he said was the cake-eating part.

Many of us can grow as individuals while in a R. It's just human nature.

It doesn't sound like she's still with the OM although that has got to be the lamest excuse I've ever heard with her equating the OM with his smoking. It's just a way of her to lessen the impact of what she did.

That's also called cake eating Stuck.
There are many variations of cake consuming behavior.
Might as well offer her some milk to go with it, that cake can get pretty dry after a while.

[MrBond]

She's not going to "fall in love" with you again if this guy is still in the picture. And the fact that she told you she wants to have sex with him THAT is where she is totally disrespecting you.

If she told you that she probably told the guy that. Since she's still in contact with the guy, expose the A to his W. Then let your W deal with what happens. All you're doing is protecting your kids.

Your W will get pissed, etc. But she crossed the line by telling you she wants to have sex with OM.

[Mike in Jax]

Just to be clear.... kids are very perceptive.
You think a kid won't notice that mom and dad are faking a married relationship? All you're doing is teaching your kid that this is what a normal relationship is like. Is this the type of relationship you want your kid to have when they grow up? Do you want them to be cheated on and taken advantage of? If so, continue doing what you're doing, you can use all the fancy words in the world to explain to them what you're doing but it's actions, specifically your actions that they will learn from.

But the opposite is also true - when Mom and Dad go through the motions for 9 years without arguing yet lacking a close intimacy, a child is able to pick up on shortcomings.

She and I have communicated more in the past few days than we have in 10 years prior.

[Ready2Change]

"I've decided you can be with the other man. I've decided that I don't want to be with someone who could so carelessly throw me away and cheat on me with another man. I want you to be with him, I'm going to start looking for someone new myself, someone who accepts me as me, doesn't lie to me and will give me everything that you're currently not giving me. I've decided that I will see a lawyer and get a separation agreement drafted. I've decided that you won't sleep in my bed anymore and that the couch is good enough for you. I've decided that I won't be a weekend dad and that I want joint custody and I've decided that you should move out. That's my decision, no hard feelings, I hope we can still be friends after all of this but right now I need some time to think about all of this and find out what I really want."

So I want to ask you a question. How uncomfortable would you be doing this? If you find it easy to do, then I wouldn't do it. But if you don't feel comfortable doing it, that IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. RobX is very wise.


Most people here chose to ignore wise advise like this and regret it later. The wise ones man up, say these words, and were prepared on how to RESPOND to her anger. They are also not bluffing.

[robx]

again - we live in Florida and she is chatting up an old friend who lives in California. She is using this relationship as a way to express herself and re-learn what it is like to be a woman.

Yes, she has told me that she would like to eventually meet this guy for a weekend of sex but there is no discussion of "I am ready to move out to Cali and move forward with him".

I realize its an open relationship she is looking for and I said, no way.

Upon that, she said, fine, we are just friends and if we happen to fall in love again, then that's great. If we don't ever fall in love again, we have some tough decisions to make with respect to our separation and the future of our son.

At this point, there is nothing stopping her from finding a local guy. I think she is infatuated with putting thoughts in an email and getting a response from an admirer.

There is a possibility it could escalate but I think she feels she is still "safe" - meaning, in her head, she has crossed a line but is not cheating.

LOL!

I'll give you points for being so calm about it either that or clueless or scared out of your mind that you don't want to rock the boat for fear of losing her.

I read the part about you being in Florida and the OM being in California, so there was no need to repeat that part, it's irrelevant, you need to realize that distance isn't an issue - if it's not him that she's admitting wanting a weekend of sex with, it will be someone locally because apparently you're just so gosh darned amicable that way.

[MrBond]

She's not going to "fall in love" with you again if this guy is still in the picture. And the fact that she told you she wants to have sex with him THAT is where she is totally disrespecting you.

If she told you that she probably told the guy that. Since she's still in contact with the guy, expose the A to his W. Then let your W deal with what happens. All you're doing is protecting your kids.

Your W will get pissed, etc. But she crossed the line by telling you she wants to have sex with OM.

[robx]

Just to be clear.... kids are very perceptive.
You think a kid won't notice that mom and dad are faking a married relationship? All you're doing is teaching your kid that this is what a normal relationship is like. Is this the type of relationship you want your kid to have when they grow up? Do you want them to be cheated on and taken advantage of? If so, continue doing what you're doing, you can use all the fancy words in the world to explain to them what you're doing but it's actions, specifically your actions that they will learn from.

But the opposite is also true - when Mom and Dad go through the motions for 9 years without arguing yet lacking a close intimacy, a child is able to pick up on shortcomings.

She and I have communicated more in the past few days than we have in 10 years prior.

uggg....

then do what you're doing,
allow yourselves to lie to your kid and allow him to learn that too so that he can do the same when it's his turn.

You certainly aren't showing him how to be a man because when his wife walks all over him he'll be clueless and wonder "why didn't dad teach me how to handle this situation?"

Let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you, they will end up hurting you, killing your self-esteem and being very cruel to you.

What you have experienced is only the beginning, bank on it.

Mike since you're ok with this situation that you're in, let me ask you, what are you hoping to gain from posting your situation on the db forums?

Misery loves company maybe?

[robx]

"I've decided you can be with the other man. I've decided that I don't want to be with someone who could so carelessly throw me away and cheat on me with another man. I want you to be with him, I'm going to start looking for someone new myself, someone who accepts me as me, doesn't lie to me and will give me everything that you're currently not giving me. I've decided that I will see a lawyer and get a separation agreement drafted. I've decided that you won't sleep in my bed anymore and that the couch is good enough for you. I've decided that I won't be a weekend dad and that I want joint custody and I've decided that you should move out. That's my decision, no hard feelings, I hope we can still be friends after all of this but right now I need some time to think about all of this and find out what I really want."

So I want to ask you a question. How uncomfortable would you be doing this? If you find it easy to do, then I wouldn't do it. But if you don't feel comfortable doing it, that IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. RobX is very wise.


Most people here chose to ignore wise advise like this and regret it later. The wise ones man up, say these words, and were prepared on how to RESPOND to her anger. They are also not bluffing.

Comfortable is a relative term,
people live in fear and pain for years because it becomes "comfortable for them" and they are afraid to step out of those comfort zones and stand up for themselves.

You are doing more harm to your marriage and relationship by not communicating that you value yourself enough and don't respect yourself enough.

[tryingtilDorR]

Mike in Jax - I learned the lesson Robx is teaching you the hard way. I got downgraded to a 'friend' as well (even less than a friend really because friends don't do what our W is doing to us).

I went into basket-case mode for months and wasted a lot of time. I begged, pleaded, and told her she didn't know what she was doing and that she was not thinking straight. I begged her to work on it, gave her guilt trips about the kids, and even convinced her to go to Retrouvaille. All the time she told me she was just here for the kids (and cake-eating basically, she has an easy life).

I 'waited it out' and it didn't work. I took a lower-paying job so I could be at home and do more, like be Mr. Mom to my kids and clean dishes and fold clothes. It didn't work or help.

I confirmed OM. I told her to get out unless she cut off all contact. She appeared to, but I caught her a few months later still in contact with him. I again told her to get out, but since I legally can't kick her out she started sleeping in another room and things have remained the same.

Then I woke up and suddenly realized that there is no way this woman could respect me, even though I was firm in my objection to her seeing an OM and demanded that she leave if she didn't cut off all contact. I knew I looked like a 'girly man' compared to this OM in her eyes, even though everyone else in the world thinks he is a lowly SOB.

After several more months of this limbo, I finally moved on and told her I don't care if she thinks she is single and that the rule will apply to both of us, and I took a new higher-paying job because I wanted to and didn't worry about being around to do housework.

Is my M improving? Not yet, but I feel a lot better and more confident. Even though she is seriously considering leaving now (which I asked her to do a long time ago) I know I am in the best position personally to move forward with or without her.

RobX is right. While I was firm that I didn't approve of OM, I tried to be a 'better option' and I think we misinterpret that. Be someone she respects, whatever that means, as your top priority.