Okay, I really do need some help on this. STBXW asked me to come down to sign some tax papers. She'll get like 2k more if I do. I agreed, but am reconsidering. Consult w/L first.
I will see none of this money. I have no problem with that aspect. Why? I do, however, notice a streak of NO RESPECT Signing without consulting w/L first will just add to her lack of respect.The only apology was one I insisted on If you get an apology only when you insist, you're being patronized. after she freaked out on me. I, on the other hand, have apologized continuously for my behavior. Stop. I've been a total wimp through this entire fiasco and I'm tired of it. Most of us are in the beginning: we want to model reasonableness, maturity.Buy No More Mr.Nice Guy.
Given the betrayal re: the 3 mo separation and her telling me she was done after the 1st week and her freakout when I told her I wouldn't just give in to her (she threatened to keep the girls from me forever) I don't trust her to be reasonable when she gets the D. She may mean well now, but once I have no leverage I'm sure she'll do whatever she wants regardless of my feelings.But the D will have enforceable stipulations.
She's also shown no interest in keeping me up to date on the girls and their activities, despite my asking for that. Talk to L.She dismisses my opinions on child-rearing issues. She also talks over me, rarely letting me speak. Set Boundaries on this .Enforce them. Read Coach's excellent thread on Boundaries.
I want a show of respect before I jump to do whatever she asks. This is an oxymoronic contradiction of terms. Mutually exclusive. Re-read what you wrote here: "I want some respect before saying , 'How high?' when she says, 'Jump.'" See what I mean? Re-think this. Should I tell her this? If so, how? Really, please help w/ this. I DON'T want to screw this up. No, don't tell her until you have read about and articulated clear, unequivocal boundaries and consequences: "When you..." "I feel..." "Therefore, I want..." "If you continue to..." "I will..."
Look up Puppy, Robx, and Gucci on Boundaries, too.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
That's exactly how I plan to lay it out, G. In terms of my feelings and what I want. The consequences are that I won't cooperate with her plans (D, taxes, etc).
What I hadn't taken into account until now is that it has to be like any other R, friendship or even adversaries (I hope not the latter). Respect works in both directions and as long as I feel respected (or at least acknowledged) I have no problem helping her in any way I can. If there's no appreciation (at least none in evidence) why bother. I'm a chump, chasing after something I won't ever get.
I don't want my butt kissed nor do I want to do the kissing.
Mostly I'm looking for the right way to frame this to her.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
Pretend she was a friend that you had a fight with. Would you sign the papers?
Mark, you mentioned that you want her to respect you. She should. You seem to care a lot for her, too. Do you think she will feel your decision to not sign would be respectful? Don't do it to chase after her or kiss butt, do it only if you believe it is the right thing to do for this person.
Every decision I'm sure is hard, but be strong and decide in a way that you can feel proud of yourself in front of her, your friends, and most of all, yourself.
Here's a draft for consideration. I tried to avoid blaming her, but I could use some opinions.
Hi,
I have some concerns that I would like to discuss with you before I come down. Over the last 6 mos I've lost a lot of my dignity and understand that respect has to be earned. I would like to let you know where I'm at and how I feel.
I feel like you don't respect me at all. You may, I don't know, but from conversations I don't get that at all. I'm not talking about control, just simple respect. I've spent the last few months doing whatever I could to understand your point of view. It just made me seem like a fool, weak and childish. I lost control of my emotions a lot and made things worse.
I asked you to keep me up to date on the girls and activities like school functions and general concerns, but failed to hold you to that for a variety of my own reasons (good and bad). I let you cut me off during conversations thinking that if I say anything you'll get mad.
And you don't want to be my friend. You weren't clear about that, but I've gotten enough signals at this point to get that through my head.
I still feel the need to help you out, but as my head clears and my self-respect returns, I don't feel that it is wise to do that if there's no consideration for my feelings. Maybe you do think about my feelings, maybe you want a friendship or at least a level of mutual respect. Maybe my feelings are clouding my perceptions. If that's true, let me know. The point is this is how I feel. I don't think it's your fault. We teach people how to treat us and this whole thing has changed me into an overly emotional, confused person. I'm not going to read your mind but your behavior has made me feel that you aren't interested in my emotions, my role as a father, or anything but trash that had to be thrown out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is how I feel. Maybe your behavior is a response to my behavior. If so, let me know what I'm doing and how that makes you feel.
Let me know what you think.
Mark
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
Way to wordy, and pleading and extraneous matter. Boiundaries = short. "When you... I feel... I want you to... If you continue to... From that point on, I will..."
No discussion. Leave.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
"I feel you don't appreciate my feelings or respect me. I want you to update me on the girls and show that my feelings are as important as yours. If you continue to show that my needs are unimportant to you I will not do you any favors (tax papers or anything else)."
This sounds like I'm using leverage. I just want her to understand that without that appreciation, I am merely a putz that gets the honor of helping her out while she continues to see me as a loser. I'm happy to help her as long as I feel appreciated.
I don't want any more ultimatums, because I don't want to come from that place and don't want them used against me in return.
Last edited by TooLateForMe; 02/08/1007:55 AM.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
I don't want any more ultimatums, because I don't want to come from that place and don't want them used against me in return.
This makes sense. Gardener mentioned boundaries. Is your intent boundaries, or clearing the table and letting her know where you are?
At first, reading your letter but not really knowing you as she does, I felt that you were emotionally unloading how you felt - perhaps offering an olive branch of sorts.
Then, as the letter continued, I began thinking you have some genuine concerns that need addressing, D or not D. Maybe check your intention for sending the letter, and then begin some editing for that purpose. Try not to sound weak, but you might want her to know you still are ready for self-improvement to make the M more possible.
"I feel you don't appreciate my feelings or respect me. I want you to update me on the girls and show that my feelings are as important as yours. If you continue to show that my needs are unimportant to you I will not do you any favors (tax papers or anything else)."
How's this for a boundary:
"When you blatantly avoid updating me on the girls I feel like you don't care about my feelings. I want you to tell me what is going on in my kids' lives. If you continue to keep me out of the loop on their lives I see no need for me to do you any favors."
Next boundary:
"These last six months you have treated me with contempt. I feel that I deserve more than that. I want that to stop. If you continue to think that I'm your enemy and treat me like one then I don't see why I should be helping you."
M:11 | T:12 | Status: Married 4C's of WAS communication: Cool, Calm, Collected and CONFIDENT
Until you begin to look out for your own needs, and from a position of "What is THE RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What is the thing that God Himself would have me do, if He were standing right in front of me?"
. . . instead of one of
"How will my wife react? How will her reaction make ME feel? Will she be angry? I don't like it when she's angry!"
. . . you'll never get anywhere.
Your first draft is WAY too wordy, an WAY to supplicating. Try Gucci's "I have decided that" phrasing, mixed with Gardener's boundaries structure, and you'll be much better off.
