I thought being "helpful" in this forum was sharing our honest thoughts, providing the thread author with various opinions/impressions from which he/she could do some thinking about what to do next.
In your other thread, you continually vascillate from a man who wants to accept and love his wife unconditionally, working on himself to improve the areas where he fell short...to a manipulative man who does things just to provoke a response from his wife.
I've been around here since '06 or so, and for the most part the commonly accepted advice given to new people here, regardless of the state of their crisis, is to do things FOR YOU and BECAUSE YOU AGREE you need to.
I don't buy into manipulation as method that will produce lasting positive results. I think your wife indicated to you on various occasions that she suspected you of manipulating the situation, in fact indicated that she felt it in your nature to do so.
I give you credit for acknowledging at some point that you had a rather significant role to play in your marital mess. Your wife told you that you, in effect, had an affair of your own throughout the marriage with your full bore approach to anything that was not family related.
Those who point their fingers at your wife and lable her with such ugliness because of her turning to another, don't seem nearly as quick to point a finger at you. In fact, at no point in your other thread have I read of anyone referring you back to the man that YOU had become during your marriage.
Affairs don't just happen because someone decides out of the clear blue sky to go do another person. Your wife choosing to involve herself with another is completely wrong, make no mistake about it. REgardless of the state of your marriage, committed people do not turn to others and violate their vows.
But can you say that you kept your vows completely?
Did you honor and cherish her? Did you forsake all others (including things) to make her the center of your attention? Did you labor beside her in your family, or was your role only that of financial provider?
I'm not intending to beat you up.
But it appears from your other thread that you had plenty of people telling you how wrong she was and how hardcore you needed to be with her.
Who ever told you how wrong you were? Who got hardcore with you?
If you want her to want you back, you have to give her something to want to come back to. And it's safe to say that she had no interest in coming back to the husband that you had become.
These are just my thoughts.
If you would rather that I not share them with you, I will stop.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
You are totally right. I have been trying to correct all my misgivings. I have been helping out a lot more. I am paying more attention to her. I suppose that's where I find the 180 so confusing. If I was kind of distant before and into work and hobbies maybe the 180 should be in the other direction.
That has been my focus since I left the forum.
I want to make her the center of attention now but she wont have anything of it.
Me:49 W: 41 Kids=D14/D14/S10 Married: 15 Together: 16 Bomb: 08/26/09 Currently: separated but in the different houses.
The divorce seems eminent. She has her mind made up. She says she doesn't want to stay married to me anymore. She was about to file Monday but somehow held up after my kids and I surprised her with a dozen roses and a total day of beauty at a spa as a gift the day before for her birthday. I know..... pursuing, but I made it from the kids.
uggg.... supplicating, that's horrible, un-masculine behavior, can I buy your love back?
regardless if it's from the kids or not.
and she didn't hold off filing because of flowers and a day at the spa, she's in control and she'll do that whenever she wants to because she knows you want the opposite of the divorce and she enjoys the power in your relationship and she will treat you poorly because of this.
I told you this before, you just don't want to listen, you just want to do what you think "feels" right: pursuing, buying gifts, getting angry, telling her to go counselling, getting emotional, etc.
When you stop doing these things and want to try something that might work let me know. ;-)
If you stopped practicing surgery for ten years and put your focus in other areas...your surgery skills would go to hell.
If at some point you then decided that you had been wrong to stop doing surgery, would you be able to walk right back in to the hospital and start doing surgery again?
Of course not.
You can't neglect something for years and then just suddenly decide that you're going to start doing it right immediately, and expect good results.
You've got your robx (and others) view point on one side. Allow me, if you don't mind, to offer a counter position.
There is no doubt a part of this that has to do with you being a true man in your relationship.
First off, I would say that this is NOT the critical issue in your marital problems. It's not that you've been too much of a wuss.
It's that you've been nothing but a paycheck.
And you were content with this because it satisfied your male ego as provider, AND allowed you to pursue all the other things that were more interesting that being Dad and husband.
Since the "bomb" you should have been focused on discovering these things about yourself and concentrated on changing those things. Reprioritizing, finding out what is truly important in life, especially as it concerns your marriage and your children.
Slowly but surely you begin changing YOUR mindset on these things. You begin to see your actions changing because of these new priorities. Your wife would see them too. And you wouldn't have to say a word.
It's not about whether or not you can land a babe. I'm sure your wife knows you can.
It's not about being nicer, because niceness can be faked.
It's actually about exactly what rob and the others are always going on about.
It's about becoming a REAL man. One who knows what is truly important in life, and you you know it because you can see it in the way he lives and the decisions he makes.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
The anger just got the best of me. I know it wasn't endearing but I was just showing her that I wasn't going to sit back and tolerate that $hit. I was royally pissed. It sure felt good.
I've mellowed out now. Today she caught me looking at BMW M5's on the internet. I think that bothered her.
Pigskin.. I see that you guys separated after your W's A. Did you kick her out? I tried to do that but her lawyer said that I couldn't. She won't leave either. I am stuck here with her and she treats me like dog$hit.
My W is making a huge mistake. I just want to let her know before she does it.
Exposing the affair and talking to the OM, awesome, glad you did it, I would have offered him a taste of my knuckles and then the name of a good plastic surgeon who does that kind of repair work ;-)
However and you know I'm going to bust you on this because you just keep repeating the same old thing.
You smashed the phone, that's an emotional response and you just showed her that she knows how to push your buttons and that you can easily be controlled and manipulated - real masculine men don't react so emotionally, they respond in a calm, cool, confident way that communicates that regardless of the current situation, you'll find a way to rise to the top.
Personally when I found the phone my wife was "hiding", I took the number, called my cell from that phone, saved the number, called her, totally surprised her as in "how did you get this number?!" and I let her know that at least I know how to get a hold of her just in case an emergency requires that I need to call her.
Now what happens.... she calls me from that phone all the time, doesn't bother to hide the number, she texts me from that phone, etc.
LOL!
This was the same phone she was hiding from me for several months, using it for whatever communications she "needed" it for.
That's the correct way to respond, not emotionally like some wussy man afraid to lose his wife.
BTW - you don't have to let her treat you like dog$hit, she treats you like that because you let her.
Give me examples of how she treats you like poop and I'll give you ways of diffusing those situations. It's easier than you think and doesn't involve ass kissing and supplicating her behavior which is why she treats you like dog poop.
Also that part about you wanting to let her know that she's making a huge mistake, WHY?!
Why do you feel the need to let her know? Why do you feel the need to control her decision?
You do things because you "feel" that it's the right thing to do, you listen to your feelings, you're in love with your feelings and you "feel" that you have to show her you "love" her and you "feel" you need to do that by exhibiting weak, wussy man behaviors.
How's that been working for ya?
Stop following your feelings!
F!@#$%&*!@#$%&*!@#$%&*
Follow reality.
Your wife is in the process of leaving you and divorcing you because she's in love with her feelings. She feels you aren't the right choice anymore. It isn't because you didn't help out around the house as much and all those other silly reasons, you became unattractive and exhibited unattractive unmasculine and pro-feminine behaviors which pretty much turn her off.
Want proof? Read your own posts on how you react to her.
You want to do what works?
Follow reality.
Reality works.
Agree with your wife. "The divorce is the best thing" "You're right, you'll never love me" "You're right, I was the worst husband, you'll never be able to trust me" "This is actually a good thing for you and me"
She pursues other men, you want proof, she flew out of town to get naked with one. She wants to pursue the OM. She wants what she can't have, she'll continue pursuing him/contacting him even if he attempts to reconcile with his wife and if that doesn't work out, while you're pursuing your wife, she'll pursue another man.
That's reality.
She doesn't want what she can have easily (you). She wants excitement. She wants a masculine man (not you) who doesn't get excited, feel threatened by her and who allows her to chase & pursue him (not you).
Create some distance.
Move in the opposite direction.
Agree with her feelings even if you really don't, just do it because in reality you can fight against her feelings, she's in love with her feelings and guided by them and even though she may be making mistakes you won't be able to convince her otherwise so you can lay any plans to rest that include writing letters, emails, texts, etc.
Stop pursuing, create distance between the 2 of you, move in the opposite direction, reject her a bit, enjoy your life, enjoy social interaction with other women and.... allow your wife to pursue you.
You won't allow that though.
You're in love with your feelings and even though I'm telling you to listen to reality instead of your feelings, you want to listen to your feelings instead but you get all excited and angry because your wife is listening to her feelings instead of you.
Nice.
They call that a double standard I think.
Your wife can't pursue you because you never allow yourself to play hard to get, you never allow yourself to be chased.
And you all want the 30 second quick fix.
Sorry, that's not reality and you're smarter than that, but.... you want to listen to your feelings but you want to convince your wife that her feelings are wrong.
You want results, you want things to start moving in the opposite direction?
Observe reality, do what works, otherwise continue to post umpteen million pages on your thread and change your username and continue doing what doesn't work but continue to tell us how frustrated you are that "everything" you've tried hasn't worked at all.
And all the other users quoting manipulation and controlling by doing things that work, well I'll fill you in on something, telling your WAS's that you want them to stay married to you and that them having affairs is wrong and they should be faithful to you and remember their marital commitment and everything that goes with trying to convince them that what they're doing is wrong is technically controlling behavior on your parts, you want to control what your spouse does and preach the "right" thing to do.
I offer you what works, reality, observe & follow reality, and stop listening and doing what you "feel" you should do.
Now you're talking too me. These are the things I have been changing. For instance, I might not have even bought her a Valentines day card last year. As the years went by we just didn't do it anymore. This year, I thought the 180 would be doing something totally special. Like building a guy out of chocolate and calling him the "awkward valentine".
I have been a better father, I help more around the house. I am more than a paycheck now. I think my 180 is doing the opposite of the other folks.
Me:49 W: 41 Kids=D14/D14/S10 Married: 15 Together: 16 Bomb: 08/26/09 Currently: separated but in the different houses.
But it appears from your other thread that you had plenty of people telling you how wrong she was and how hardcore you needed to be with her.
Who ever told you how wrong you were? Who got hardcore with you?
If you want her to want you back, you have to give her something to want to come back to. And it's safe to say that she had no interest in coming back to the husband that you had become.
These are just my thoughts.
Bill in all fairness I got hardcore with "sleepy", I still get hardcore with him, he continues to make the same mistakes and follow his feelings about getting her back.
He's just not receptive to advice, he wants to do what "feels" right.
Now you're talking too me. These are the things I have been changing. For instance, I might not have even bought her a Valentines day card last year. As the years went by we just didn't do it anymore. This year, I thought the 180 would be doing something totally special. Like building a guy out of chocolate and calling him the "awkward valentine".
I have been a better father, I help more around the house. I am more than a paycheck now. I think my 180 is doing the opposite of the other folks.
No regardless of the fact that you didn't do that in the relationship, doing that now while you're separated and moving towards divorce will still show you as pursuing her.
You can do all the fancy dancy valentines day gifts you want when the marriage is reconciled but not in the current relationship status that the two of you enjoy.
Agree with your wife. "The divorce is the best thing" "You're right, you'll never love me" "You're right, I was the worst husband, you'll never be able to trust me" "This is actually a good thing for you and me"
She pursues other men, you want proof, she flew out of town to get naked with one. She wants to pursue the OM. She wants what she can't have, she'll continue pursuing him/contacting him even if he attempts to reconcile with his wife and if that doesn't work out, while you're pursuing your wife, she'll pursue another man.
That's reality.
She doesn't want what she can have easily (you). She wants excitement. She wants a masculine man (not you) who doesn't get excited, feel threatened by her and who allows her to chase & pursue him (not you).
Create some distance.
Move in the opposite direction.
Agree with her feelings even if you really don't, just do it because in reality you can fight against her feelings, she's in love with her feelings and guided by them and even though she may be making mistakes you won't be able to convince her otherwise so you can lay any plans to rest that include writing letters, emails, texts, etc.
Stop pursuing, create distance between the 2 of you, move in the opposite direction, reject her a bit, enjoy your life, enjoy social interaction with other women and.... allow your wife to pursue you.
You won't allow that though.
You're in love with your feelings and even though I'm telling you to listen to reality instead of your feelings, you want to listen to your feelings instead but you get all excited and angry because your wife is listening to her feelings instead of you.
Nice.
They call that a double standard I think.
Your wife can't pursue you because you never allow yourself to play hard to get, you never allow yourself to be chased.
And you all want the 30 second quick fix.
Sorry, that's not reality and you're smarter than that, but.... you want to listen to your feelings but you want to convince your wife that her feelings are wrong.
You want results, you want things to start moving in the opposite direction?
Observe reality, do what works, otherwise continue to post umpteen million pages on your thread and change your username and continue doing what doesn't work but continue to tell us how frustrated you are that "everything" you've tried hasn't worked at all.
And all the other users quoting manipulation and controlling by doing things that work, well I'll fill you in on something, telling your WAS's that you want them to stay married to you and that them having affairs is wrong and they should be faithful to you and remember their marital commitment and everything that goes with trying to convince them that what they're doing is wrong is technically controlling behavior on your parts, you want to control what your spouse does and preach the "right" thing to do.
I offer you what works, reality, observe & follow reality, and stop listening and doing what you "feel" you should do.
Ok man.......Today, I'm back on the program. She wants me to use a wuss collaborative lawyer. I think when the time comes, I will call out the bulldog.
Me:49 W: 41 Kids=D14/D14/S10 Married: 15 Together: 16 Bomb: 08/26/09 Currently: separated but in the different houses.
