Looking for Advice

[MrBond]

City Girl and sandi,

Could you stop by my thread and offer your suggestions about my W coming over this weekend? Thanks!

Sorry for the hijack.

[gutwrenching]

Sandi - please don't sell yourself short, you too have communicated very well with me and it clicks...I think this is just a case of maybe needing to hear a different way, a little variety, but please, I value your opinions and they have really, really helped me. You, Rocked, and Rabbit have consistently helped me and I your help has been immense.

Quick Update: baby step for me. Last night i didn't do everything for W. First off, I let her car stay outside instead of pulling ito the garage, I didn't even remind her. That was tough for me. This morning she remembered and had to go scrape the snow of of it...again, I didn't offer to do that for her. I also let the dishes stack up in the sink all night, that is a 180 for me and me not letting W cake eat. I continued to let them sit there this morning (we took the day off) and at one point W even casually asked if the dishwasher full (hinting that must be the reason they are stacking up). I just said no and left the kitchen. Aobut 15 minutes later, she took care of the dishes and I sat on the couch reading a book. Now I won't do this everytime, but I've done more than my fair share.

I can also say that since Sunday's wild mood swing, she has been very even keeled, friendly, calm. I have been treated very well. Is it because of the dog? I don't know. Is it because I was eventually firm with her on Sunaday? I don't know. I just know it is much more relaxing and less stressful. I have received no bad attitude, no nastiness, in fact she has hung around me much more than has been the norm. She has not been leaving to do her own thing, but usually suggesting we do something together.

Today I had to take D3 to doctor for ear infection, but W has her now as I had to come into work for a bit on my day off. W actually seems to be engaged with her, good to see. Wall is still up when it comes to us, but maybe not quite as fortified/defiant...but still up as is to be expected.

[sandi2]

Quick Update: baby step for me. Last night i didn't do everything for W. First off, I let her car stay outside instead of pulling ito the garage, I didn't even remind her. That was tough for me. This morning she remembered and had to go scrape the snow of of it...again, I didn't offer to do that for her. I also let the dishes stack up in the sink all night, that is a 180 for me and me not letting W cake eat. I continued to let them sit there this morning (we took the day off) and at one point W even casually asked if the dishwasher full (hinting that must be the reason they are stacking up). I just said no and left the kitchen. Aobut 15 minutes later, she took care of the dishes and I sat on the couch reading a book. Now I won't do this everytime, but I've done more than my fair share.

This is fantasitc!! You deserve a metal b/c it is a step in the right direction. My suggestion is to continue to do this until she really gets the message. One time won't be enough. Remember what Michele says about that.

she has hung around me much more than has been the norm. She has not been leaving to do her own thing, but usually suggesting we do something together.

I promise the dog does not have anything to do with this. She is attracted to your behavior! You get it......you are beginning to get it!

Wall is still up when it comes to us, but maybe not quite as fortified/defiant...but still up as is to be expected.

Yes, but I think a brick came down. I've been that woman, GW, and I know it takes time and it's hard for her to let that wall down. You are beginning to make the difference for her. Now, she will begin to have hope that you are worth her taking the risk! Gee, I'm really excited!

[Lost Rabbit]

The demise of the brick wall eh! This almost became a joke between H and I. When he first left he had two brick walls, his first was that he didnt love me any more and his second was he wanted to find out what it was like to be single, we got together as teenagers and married in our early twenties, neither of us was ever really single.

At the beginning both of these walls were fully maintained and even wire protected at the top lol. He would come and visit and I might at first chip away at some mortar. But the following time it would be back built to perfection, then I managed a few odd bricks but again it would be put back up with extra barbed wire by the following visit.

I then didnt see him for a month and when he visited I asked after his brick walls because by this time it had become a joke between us, his reply was that it was just a pile of rubble now and he needed a jcb to clear the last bit up. Now if that was a question to see if I'd jump to it and offer to clear up as us girls are so good at doing it didnt work, my reply was let me know when you have cleared it up and we can talk.

Now the moral of this story is that these walls are self building, you knock a brick off and it goes back up again, this will continue for a while, when you get to rubble status DONT fix it, she HAS to clear it up herself as it she will always feel she has business unfinished. Also once you have defeated the wall watch out for its self building ability and nip it in its bud/foundations stage.

And after all that waffle hoorrrahhhh for the first brick, you have done good mate, keep that bolster chisel at the ready its got work to do lol!

[gutwrenching]

Rabitt - your timing is impeccable. Because the wall re-fortified itself between last night and this morning. So I needed that pep talk. After I came home from work, W was in a bad mood after a whopping 2 hours with the kids on her own. That started things, but I took a different approach. I called her out on her bad mood...instead of letting it brew, I said wow you seem to be in a foul mood what's the deal. W replied she is in bad mood, tired of younger daughter. I asked what specifically and she said she didn't want to talk about it. Good news is she didn't project it to me nor take it out on me.

Then there was last nights social event where at times she was watching every move I was making and at other times just being cold and telling me she didn't want me pushing her chair in for her (like a gentlemen)...then after the event it was back to pulling out her computer instead of hanging out and then staying up till 2:30 or 3 in the morning to a more typical very cold "goodnight" after I said goodnight to her.
Then his morning where again she woke up in foul mood...probably b/c she had to take daughter to ballet. I again tried the technique of calling her out on the bad mood...she apologized if she was acting short b/c she said she was fine.

W took D3 to ballet for first time in months...when W wanted me to take D to doctor yesterday, I said ok but that means you get ballet lessons the next morning. I got no response, but this morning, that is exactly what happened.

So the wall is refortified...its so much less tense around here when at least a couple of bricks are chipped away.

[sandi2]

So proud of you calling her out about her bad mood just b/c she had to be with her own children for two hours. Wow!

But you know what? Maybe the next time she is so free to display her bad moood (and there will be a next time) you might speak to her like you would a child and tell her that everyone experiences feelings of bad moods--but that adults learn how to deal with it instead of taking it out on the family members. She is cake eating with these bad moods and it's time to stop it. She doesn't appreciate you putting up with them and she takes advantage. If it was once a month....then I might see that, but every day???

she didn't want me pushing her chair in for her (like a gentlemen)...

Okay, fine....then she needs to experience losing that nice gentleman touch. I know this is not what you prefer.....but I think she resents you so much (at times) that she doesn't want you to do anything like that. Some women find it offensive (which I think is a result of women's lib), but give her what she wants and stop doing those things. Let her see what it's like when you do it for other ladies. Yep, you need to still show that you are a gentleman to other women (and see how that balloon floats for her). You don't have to completely stop being who you are, just b/c she doesn't want you doing anything for "her".

You may feel that you are spinning your wheels, but I do think you are making progress now. I think you will be able to see a lot of change when she finally stops staying up all night on the computer. If she was in a good mood after being on it, that would really concern me a lot. But, I'm wondering if she's looking up information about OM? Maybe she's reading his FB or something and sees he is moving on without her. That would put her in a foul mood. Perhaps she was hoping to apply some pressure on him regarding this possible move, and he didn't respond like she hoped. I'm just guessing.

There is "something" that is drawing her to late hours on the computer. At some point in your R with her, you will have to call her out about that, and tell her that it isn't an issue of trusting her but that it is an issue of her being isolated from her family and causing you to feel disrespected. She obviously places other things above her family & M.....and that is pretty disrespectful.

[gutwrenching]

Sandi - great thoughts again. I put all those nuggets in the back of my mind.

The computer is odd-we went about a week without the computer addiction and then it resurfaced last night. And I thought she too was heading up to bed...as she had fallen asleep, but once I left to go to bed, she was back on the computer. It would have been 4 or 5 in the morning where OM is, so it could have been looking stuff up or looking at e-mails or nothing, who knows.

We had actually also gone 6 days without the bad moods...today, she seems ok. Not in good mood, but not in bad mood either.

Yes at some point, the computer sessions into the night is going to have to be addressed. Now probably not the right time, but will see if she falls back into that pattern.

I took a moderate approach with the dirty kitchen today. She was out for ballet and shopping with D for about 3-4 hours today and I didn't clean up the kitchen. She got back and had to make Chili for us for tonight's event, and there was no room to make it. So I emptied the dishwasher and picked up just a little and wandered off. She then cleaned up a little more.

And yes I have had feelings of spinning my wheels which is where friends like you and Rabbit have really helped today to try to put a positive spin on things. yes she places a ton of things about our M, but that's because she really doesn't want to be in it. Placing things ahead of family is disturbing right now.

[sandi2]

I know it really bothers you that she doesn't spend enough time with you and the children. It is a by-product of the WAW.

[gutwrenching]

Yes Sandi you are correct, it bothers me.

but I think she resents you so much (at times) that she doesn't want you to do anything like that

Sandi - you nailed this one I think. She has told me that she "resents" some of the things I do these days that I either never did before or didn't do enough of...she resents the fact that it took her leaving to get me to do some of these things she has wanted.

Today was just different. I really enjoyed relaxing and reading/finishing a book of fiction for a change and enjoyed time to myself in the house. Later this evening, also peaceful times as both W and I read while the girls played together/with us in the living room. In between, the function which was just OK and seemed to be a lot of tension in the air which I just ignored and stayed away from W most of the evening.

W kept on talking about how tired she is today...gee you think, you stay up till 3 in the morning and that's what happens. Also, dog not doing as well today which is adding to stress in the house. And tonight reality hitting that tomorrow is our last day with him.

Couple of observations.

I am back to making some progress on detaching, I'm thinking a lot about a life without W again and that is healthy for me. It isn't scaring me, but it is not what I want for the kids so that is the internal conflict.

There might be a correlation between lack of sleep and W's bad moods. Kind of hit me today that two might be going together which is a stark contrast too when she was in the throws of EA and regularly only getting a few hours of sleep a night and I was amazed that she could still function.

Next two days are going to suck. Tomorrow last day with dog, next morning W and I will together have him put down. D8 crying tonight over it and I'm pretty sure W is crying in our room over it now...

[gutwrenching]

Sandi -
So what do you make of this...what do I need to do differently?

Tonight W takes computer, shuts herself in bedroom at about 11:00. When I get tired, I take dog up to go to bed. W says she has been looking at pictures of the dog. So I tell her the dog is hard on all of us...her reply is harder on her because it has basically been her dog...and that is true and I told her so, but that doesn't mean I don't care too.

W asks if I'm tired and I said yes, its 1 in the morning. She says she's going to take her computer and go downstairs then. And she isn't being friendly. So I take your advice and call her on all of it.

First of all, I say take a sleeping pill or something, you were in bad mood today because you were tired and now tomorrow is going to be a repeat. I said I don't understand the need to stay on the computer till 3 or 4 in the morning. Her reply was that it wasn't 4 last night it was 2...I said I don't know what time it was, but it was late. I told her I'm tired of the bad moods and being treated like crap. W says what I'm cordial, I'm friendly, we're like roommates. I said yes except for the wild mood swings where you are then cold, nasty, and mean and I provided example of Friday afternoon. W says to me that she was just mad because she expected me to be home sooner that afternoon and we were running late. I replied with I got ready in-time and we didn't end up being late.

W then says I've always been moody (which is a true statement)...I reply not this bad and if you were this bad in the past, I shouldn't have put up with it before either (my tone of voice was firm, probably slightly agitated, like I would talk to my older daughter if she was pulling this stunt). W says to me "then just let me go"...I ask her what does that mean...she won't answer...I ask again, no response, I ask a couple more time and then say no you need to explain that, you threw it out there, what does that mean. W says quit trying to make us work, this obviously isn't working. Let me move on.

I now more calmly state that I am not keeping you here, I am not forcing you to be here, and no we aren't working yet...but every time I see my kids, it gives me the strength to keep trying, even though I lose feelings every day. Especially seeing how sad the older daughter is at losing the dog, I'm still trying for them. I said the reason this isn't working is because there is still only one of us trying and then I validated - I said I understand why you can't try right now, I understand its hard and you're tired. I also threw something in there about the kids - I said I now also understand how hard it is to be basically a single parent for long stretches of time, you were very good at it, but it is tiring. I closed by saying I haven't given 100% yet and those kids (as I pointed to their bedrooms) deserve better so I'm still trying.

W is obviously upset about the dog and exhausted which is what is baffling me. Body language said I'm exhausted, but she took her computer to the basement anyways. I took a sleeping pill, which I'm waiting to kick in.