Aside from the confidence, dressing better, etc. What else would make a woman take notice? Funny thing is, I did all these things and it attracted other women around me. Everyone, that is, EXCEPT my W.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Honestly, there might not be one single thing that makes your W take notice. If other women are noticing then clearly you are doing something right.
Sometimes a WAS is simply done. My H was. Of course his affair helped him along but no matter what, my H was done. As I have said before NOTHING made him think twice... not illness, legalities, a trial or losing all his assets made him blink.
If you feel good about you and the changes you are making then stay on that path. If your W takes a second look, well, GREAT! If not then you know you are on a healthy road to rebuilding a new life for you.
2 true! In my case I think she is still lost in the fog since she works with the OM. I don't think she's actually in a R with him since she's still spending time with us as a family, but until he is completely out of the picture, I don't see how she'll start hitting a low point. He's probably a subconscience reminder of how "wonderful" a new life would be.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I think flirting is safe if you make sure you give her the space to back away and follow her lead on that, AND keep it light. Show there is sexual tension and attraction between you two, as she may have missed it with the m in the past (which is usual in long R's...and part of why we ALL have to work to keep things a little interesting.) There is a difference between flirting and pursuing. Part of it is humor in the flirting, and a relaxed approach. Don't stake anythingon the results of a flirtatious moment, or this weekend, you know?
And you don't have to continue to pursue or follow thru, unless it seems natural to both of you and you'll know that, if it is.
As for my sitch, well, when h seemed he wanted back into the M fully, it was only when I had fully detached AND only after he had time to look around at his life and wonder where the hell we all were. He found himself alone a great deal and it started to matter a lot to him. He'd be invited places with his new peeps but His new friends and heroes were not replacing us very well over time, as it turns out. I sensed his awakening starting, when he'd say things like "I haven't been outside all weekend" or "I guess I've been a little depressed lately" which for him was very unsusual. He's outdoorsy & optimistic by nature. He'd disclose things to me as if we were friends and as if I was interested in how he was feeling. (Which I was but tried to hide and sometimes succeeded.) So What did I do?
I listened. And I continued on in my new life.
Stuck, Did you ever get a DB coach? I found them VERY helpful and specific. For MY sitch, she advised "listening like a lover"when h was sharing/disclosing. That's not easy when you want to "correct" their assessments. But my h didn't share info about OW and I would not have been able to cope with that.It's a boundary issue. My gut tells me that unless your w wants to reassure you that there's nothing going on with her boss/OM, there's no point in hearing about him otherwise. You are her h, not her confessor. It'd be healthy for her to work elsewhere too. But as of now, you're not in a position to impose that condition on her. By the way, How is she acting around you in terms of mental /emotional health? No, I would not ask her if I were you. I'm only wondering if you've noticed anything either way.
In my sitch, when h began to show his confusion or doubt about his choices, or discussed "US", or "making the M better", etc., I tried not to sound cynical or too suspicious but NOR did I jump at his words or pounce on the first chance to reconcile. He wasn't at home after all.
So I felt like saying "DO" it, don't "TALK", the "actions speak louder than words" thing rang true but I held back and listened to him...the more silent I was, the more he was forced to fill the air with HIS disclosures, not mine. And the more he seemed to figure things out.
He had some proving to do to me, and that wasn't to punish him, but to verify that the risk would be worth it for me. Why go for a 2nd round of m, if the same thing is going to happen again? If he was still restless or confused, or not committed or unsure, blah blah blah, well I was NOT interested in having my heart and life broken up again, let alone putting the kids through that. I would think you're in the same boat there.
But he persisted and said things that needed saying. Still, the odd thing is that just last August, after >2 years of piecing and reconciling, my h finally said FULLY what I had to hear, but until he said it, I didn't even know that it was missing.
Hard to explain, but it was only then that I thought, "Wow, he really does get it. He KNOWS how much pain he caused and he feels deep regret..." and that was an "aha" moment for both of us. Has it been all smooth since? Heck no. We still have issues and need to use the tools we gained through this whole ordeal AND Retrovaille, which we found very very useful. So anyhow, don't know if that helps you. But don't expect too many lightning strikes from her yet. THe awakenings that last, don't occur over night but are slowly built and revealed.
Since your w is not officially or unofficially in the home FOR the purpose of saving the M, don't read too much into anything and don't make her feel that you are. Be as lighthearted as you can. We know She's confused. And you know you both love the kids, you have a past, and a future in common--the kids at least.
Keep and enhance that part of the R, so you can build on it. It helps. It's a start. Like you, I knew my h and I had to have some contact forever, (kids) and I wanted it to at least be civil, if not warm. As I said, it was a start and we kept in touch about our kids, and the finances when we had to. [b]I veered off and stayed away from discussions about the future, and suggest you do so as well. But I'd let him glimpse my GAL stuff.
Regardless, and I could be wrong, but my gut says your w is not so much cake eating with you, as she's feeling deep shame and confusion. I suspect she's asking herself how she can get out of this wacko mess SHE has created.
Long term, [color:#CC0000]you'll have to show her that there is a path out of this. I don't think you can do that this weekend but you can enjoy the time around each other and that's likely the most this weekend can accomplish. Long term your goals will be, to show her that trust is something you two can rebuild without making her eat crow, that you are not being punitive or distrustful so much as you are cautious, figure out how to stay away from being judgemental, yet set & enforce healthy boundaries. It's all a balancing act. [/color]
I think I told you I believe some couples don't recon b/c the WAS thinks they cannot be forgiven, and sometimes they're right. They fear that the LBSer won't ever let it go. (Or can't.) If the WAS thinks that the sword of Damacles will be held over their head the rest of their lives, or that the LBSer will rub their nose in it, shaming them forever, never letting it go, throwing it in their face in an argument, then they don't even bother trying to come back even if they want to. Hard to know what the WAS wants, in those cases, I'm hopeful for you. But she needs lots of space and help. Sometime, down the road if you try to recon, counselling for her is mandatory.
For now, be upbeat, FUN, busy, but flexible--make your goal to show at least 2 180's if you can. You have lots of long term work to do, but for this weekend, show the 180s and then, Why not just try to have a good, fun weekend and leave it at that? I mean, if you can have some "good times" together in small bursts, it will build. Have the goal be "no fighting or tension THIS day" and maybe see some comedies so you can laugh together....and let that build. Let it be enough for now. Good luck, j-
[/b]
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
My W just called and said that her sister is having her place painted over the weekend. So she's going to be staying over Friday and Saturday night. Of course this is coming from the woman who was "afraid" of me just last week.
Any thoughts?
If it is convenient for you and if you don't mind her taking up the space, say yes. But, but, but ~ you have plans. You WILL go out at night - you do NOT have time to hang out and keep her company. All you have to offer her is fresh air (not paint fumes!). Stuck has a life!
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
I haven't gotten a DB coach for financial reasons, but what you mentioned about "listening like a lover" is definitely something I have to do more of. The problem so far is that since everything started, she's been talking less and less. Or it takes awhile for her to talk but it's always about some general thing. When I do try to build a conversation slowly, I usually just get yes and no or very short answers. Even when I rephrase it into a question to get her input, she shrugs and says "up to you", or "it's okay".
That's one of the problems we've run into in the past. She never verbalized what was bothering her. And even now she doesn't. She'd rather just run than confront.
I think that's the thing about the OM. She knows she was wrong, is ashamed about it, but when asked or confronted about it, her answer is always "well it doesn't matter because I just don't want to be married anymore."
That has been her main answer for everything. "I just don't want to be married anymore." I've tried asking in the past, what that meant and if there was something wrong in the M, but she just keeps giving me that answer.
"By the way, How is she acting around you in terms of mental /emotional health? No, I would not ask her if I were you. I'm only wondering if you've noticed anything either way."
Yes I notice she's much more withdrawn and seems depressed. Her skin is breaking out more. She can turn it on and off though. I've seen her seeming very happy and friendly when she is with other people, then when we are alone, she shuts down.
She contradicts herself all the time. Like last week she told me she was "afraid" of me and would call the cops on me if I "withheld" my D from her for the night. All I did was recommend that she stay overnight for one night. I didn't say she couldn't see her. Yet she threatened me with the police and made it sound like I was taking her across the border somewhere. Yet that night, she came over and was as nice as can be.
I've broken down her behavior before and I think it comes down to one thing...CONTROL. I think she believes she has no control of what she did or is doing and when I seem to take control from her, she sees gets afraid and lashes back with a threat. I've never threatened her or given her ultimatums, yet rather than discussing something, she'll get a bit overly excited or start threatening me.
I believe that until she stops running and stops to look around to see what she has in front of her, she's not going to change. I'm still waiting for that 'ah ha' moment from her.
Things have gotten better in terms of us being able to be around each other and I've been trying to establish a footing for her to latch on to.
"Regardless, and I could be wrong, but my gut says your w is not so much cake eating with you, as she's feeling deep shame and confusion. I suspect she's asking herself how she can get out of this wacko mess SHE has created."
I agree. For someone who said she was all set to make a new life for herself, she just stays home at her sister's place. Even on weekends. She doesn't have any friends she hangs out with. I think she's in depression and although she's said she would go for C, she hasn't. For her, depression is like alcoholism. She isn't going to see a problem until SHE sees the problem.
I've been trying to treat her as if she was someone new I was dating. I'm glad I dated that other girl for awhile because it gave me a chance to flex those long unused muscles.
I do think you're right too in saying that she feels I can't get over what she did or forgive her. I think that's why she's denied the A. After all, if it never happened, then she has nothing to apologize for. I believe she sees that as a form of me having CONTROL over her. That I would be right and she was wrong. I admit that I made her feel that way in the beginning. Heck I'm only human. But I've already forgiven her. She has to admit to herself what happened and forgive herself. I think that is when she'll feel remorse.
After all is said and done, I think all of this is the reason I'm still standing in the M. She's not like Kevin's W who went out and GAL, she really hasn't been cake eating. I even remember the month before she said she was leaving (almost 2 years ago), she asked me if it were possible to love two people at the same time. Little did I know she was asking about me and the OM. After she chose the OM (married) she made me out to be the enemy, coming up with stories I couldn't believe. In her mind, after all, if you didn't love someone, you must hate them.
Those are just conclusions I've come up with and for that I pity her. What she feels is empowerment is just running. For the sake of my kids and her, I hope she crashes and burns soon. And while I can't change anything now, I keep things comfortable and stable for her to return if she chooses while I GAL and leave the rest to God.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
My W just called and said that her sister is having her place painted over the weekend. So she's going to be staying over Friday and Saturday night. Of course this is coming from the woman who was "afraid" of me just last week.
Any thoughts?
If it is convenient for you and if you don't mind her taking up the space, say yes. But, but, but ~ you have plans. You WILL go out at night - you do NOT have time to hang out and keep her company. All you have to offer her is fresh air (not paint fumes!). Stuck has a life!
Greek
Or.... "I'm kinda busy, having a friend over that night" ,etc.
No one says you have to let her stay over.
You do what you want to do.
Don't do what "feels right", uggg... if I hear that one more time on this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It feels right to pursue them, to preach undying love & devotion, to be a wussy, to buy gifts, to buy dinners, to let them walk all over you because you love them and want to prove to them that you'll always be there for them.
A confident, stable, masculine man does what he wants to do, not what he's pressured into doing. It's ok to say NO, trust me, people do it all the time.
"You know what, I was thinking about it and I don't know if I'm comfortable with that".
You could let her stay wherever her sister is going to be staying during the "painting", let her inconvenience her, you don't have wuss out and say yes definitely stay with me, I'll do anything for you.
