It is good that you signed up for Retrouvaille. They do not have a heavy religious influence. They are completely focused on saving marriages, and marriage is the topic they talk about.
You cannot teach it to yourselves. These are not exercises you can do at home without their training first. They teach you by using their experiences as examples. If you don't meet the people and hear their stories, then you don't get the experience. It was started in Canada, which is why it has the French name. I'm sure the program in Canada is topnotch.
TTA is correct. Call a truce. This is like a serious disease that you need a professional doctor to treat. You cannot fix it yourselves. Wait until the Retrouvaille weekend. They will teach you how to talk to each other about your problems, and they will give you the right questions to ask. They will give you rules to discuss by. There are rules for fair fighting. I didn't know before we went there that all of our fights were unfair fights. No wonder we never solved a problem.
Someone asked if both my H and I were committed to reconciliation when we walked in the door to Retrouvaille. Honestly, neither of us was committed to the marriage at that time. We were unhappy together and we felt that we would give this one thing a try and then we would get divorced. I was more interested in reconciliation than he was. He had a girlfriend, and I had no one.
It is only 2 days of your life. Surely the years you have spent together and the 5 children you have together are worth spending 2 days listening to what the Retrouvaille team has to say. The cost of the program is the facility rental and your meals. All of the team leaders are volunteers. Retrouvaille only pays their travel expenses. They make the program as inexpensive as they can because their goal is reduce the marital strife in the world. A very big project!
Calling a truce is a nice way to put it. I told her tonight that I wasn't willing to move out, but I'm good with some kind of division/separation in the house. I told her I might, if I really felt it was needed, go to a hotel for a couple days or a week at most, but I'm not at this point. I reminded her that she can make her decisions as she needs if she can't be patient, but I just need her patience while I sort my brain out.
In a way, I'm trying to end the incessent R talks, but also get some breathing room to clear my mind. Reviewing it, its like she's been asking for a D for so many years, while I just secretly wanted it but never asked. Finally, I gave it and 'ok'd the D. She declared she never meant it, but didn't work at all on the M. Near the final hour when I was about to file, she wanted to work it out. I agreed. Suddenly freaking on how I could agree impusively (ADHD), I said I wasn't sure, then she didn't want it, then she did, then I got it by love and ML. Then a few days later she didn't want it cause she knew I didn't want it. Wash, rinse, repeat. 7x in one month. I gave up and began heading toward D again. She agrees to counselling, but suddenly we're ML while still separated. I need time I say, she says, 'then move out for one month, it's for the best, but maybe I won't want you in a month' Wash, rinse, repeat...
So I'm not sure if I should go closer, set firm boundaries that are like having candy around you but you don't touch, or follow her advice and ship out for a couple weeks until Retrouvaille (in or out of the house physical separation?)
Question...do you think further separation makes any sense if we are going to Retrouvaille? What a stressful year...but it might end the stresses of an 11yr M as another 40 happy ones or just ended.
I need a manual. You know, one of those you have but the answers become clear through osmosis?
I've heard some people say that separation made things harder, and I've heard others say separation helped them. I know that when my 3 children were young, I needed my husband to help deal with them. And you have 5 young children. I suggest you refuse to discuss the relationship. You cannot fix this yourselves, and in one month you will devote an entire weekend to it. For now, you need to just cooperate and get along. Decisions can be made after Retrouvaille.
TTA - regarding the ADHD, I was talking to my W and she said that she told her sister she feels that I don't have a problem. She feels I'm intellegent and able and I don't fit the mold enough. In the past, she's agreed.
Now, I've showed her my only living report card from elementary, and it wasn't good...something about if would just try harder, put in more effort, etc.
Just a "poll"...what makes someone know they love their W or H, not just love the idea of having a S?
I had never dated before M so I wouldn't get caught dating when I wasn't ready (& religious value - no sex till M) , although the few women I got close to
I am about to send my wife this email with a list of 'hopes'. I'm doing this because I noticed in many threads that the LBS sometimes feels at a loss for what went wrong and that they didn't get a chance to work on the issues. Also, I've told my W that I want very badly to build bridges so we can develop the love we've never ever had, but there is a timeline - our D becomes final in just under 3 months. We both need to do the 180s & more, not just me or her.
ME (my goals, I'm not going to send this to her) 1.I will not push her away, nor push her to do anything 2.No more R talks about feelings/why/because, unless they are about what is happening now 3.Accept or give non-sexual physical touch so I might develop more desire and help her remember I want to be with her 4.Avoid any D talk or actions from me 5.Not reconcile or hint at it unless I'm sure I'm ready 6.Encourage, but not force her to work on herself 7.List each day what I liked about her that day, or regretted in my actions 8.Keep my physical body healthy and able, smiling, and working out (my own self-esteem boosts IN marriage...) 9.Get myself caught up on overdue work; find a new work routine that works while M (no spousal blame for my problems) 10.Be calmer when angered – go to counselling to see if I can improve my patience and reduce reacting to her actions 11. Rediscover me, the me that I've been compromising and that would've likely caused an MLC in 10 years anyhow... 12.Be proud of my ADHD benefits, and see if she loves them or sees them as a curse 13.Avoid expecting miracles from me or her (no more “you aren’t changing” type words or behaviours)
HER (things that would show me she is trying, not a ‘all-or nothing’ list) 1.Counselling to deal with strong reactions to problems with me and your fears of failure, being judged or criticized 2.Sharing full responsibility with me for making the house & family function 3.Expecting that I will always make mistakes, so forgive if you can but always be willing to forget them 4.Accept my need to succeed at what I do, even if that means I might sometimes over-focus on it for a while; accept my curiosity (reading, testing things) & use honey to draw me away from it, not frustration or anger 5.Help me balance work and home without threating, becoming angry or emotional, or controlling (success at work = success at home) 6.Help our daughter that is in my school as much as you would for the other kids 7.Not rushing mediation and other divorce planning things 8.Understand I’m staying clear of R talks - no more ‘it’s not working out’ unless you are trying to say you don’t like me or want me 9.Trust me: read MY mind if you want, but ask me if you are right about my thoughts rather than believe your mind over mine 10.Ask me for help, not tell me to help because other husbands would 11.Come spend time with me, not ‘threaten’ to spend time with me (treat me like an adult, not a parent) 12.Understand that I need to have some independence and privacy, especially during this month, but time could pull us closer 13.Help me prepare to fix and sell the house (too many bad memories, not enough space) 14.Tell me what you love me doing it when I do it, so I can do more of it! 15.Commit to social time with me having fun and going out, meeting people, and doing things alone 16.Get a babysitter that you trust so we can go out 17.Listen and try to value my opinion. I don't need you to agree, just to consider my point of view.
Is this still a me or control list? The woman she is just isn't the woman I want to be with. I don't see what else I can do but ask us both to make some changes.
Starting to realize the obvious, my hope is that she and I will both change like in a company restructuring. Hopeless?
W was sick, in part because she refuse to let me drive her to the doctor and insisted on going by bus. Came home angry. I made lunch for the kids, offered and brought her h&lem, food. She apologized for her outburst and said that she can be anything if she feels wanted.
I bit my tongue for a while. Reminded her that during the next couple months we should try to do that 'anything' regardless of how we might feel we are being treated by the other.
OTMT, having a giant list for your goals is a good idea. Having a list like that for someone else...not so much IMO. No matter what happens you and your W will have issues to negotiate and conflicts to resolve, whether that's in your M or as coparents. I think you need to focus on communicating your needs/wants in the present.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
If I pour all my efforts into making my separation into a 'honeymoon', less the ML and still being honestly myself, but I find that even after Retrouvaille I don't want to stay with her, will I have just hurt her?
She has told me that the hardest part for her is that she's afraid that it won't work out and it would hurt too much. So she wants to pull away and keep some distance so if I don't stay, she won't get hurt.
I don't know how to stay somewhat apart, but still try to find love for my W when I don't touch her and our interactions are somewhat cold/distant.
Suggestions, yes Everyday you do homework. The homework being that you state 3 things you like about the other person. Different things everyday.
You also sit together and look into each others eyes for a few minutes and then after that hug for sevearl more minutes.
Also, you plan time ALONE together- maybe at a hotel or something and do something as simple as watch tv together. Lay on the bed and simply snuggle.
Randomly during the day you say kind words to her and randomly kiss her cheek or rub her back, give her a nice smile
The communications patterns are not working -so change it up.
Women like to vent while men are problem solvers. Let her vent- listen and "I am sorry about that, sound like you have a rough day, can I do something to help you?" (in a really sincere, kind voice)
If she comes at you yelling- learn the phrase "I'm sorry you feel that way"
Men have the huge urge to defend themselves during what they perceive to be an attack (or is an attack). The calmer your remain, the calmer she will eventually get. Look attentive, not upset, look concerned, during her rant- give her an unexpected hug and say "I'm sorry you are upset". Note you are not apologizing for anything. Just letting her know taht you are emapthizing with her....
Write her a beautiful love letter and leave it in a spot that she will see.
Just some thoughts.....
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
