The adventure chronicles

[AFWAW]

GH31,
You are correct. I still want my wife to fulfill her responsibility as a mom regardless if we reconcile or not. My daughter has already drawn her own conclusions about what type of person and what kind of lifestyle my wife has choosen to lead this past year and not because anything that I have said but from instances of admission bymy wife and through observations while I was away in Iraq and how much her mom was not around when I got home.

Well, I'll update quickly. I am tdy to another base right now for a week and my wife had asked for my daughter's sake that she be allowed to stay at our marital home instead of her apartment so my daughter would not have to adjust her routine so drastically. (I didn't think it was that drastic) I asked my daughter if she would be comfortable with that and she said NO! When I asked why, she said that it would feel like she was intruding on her everyday life. A pretty good point. I decided to let my wife stay there anyway but I had a talk with her regarding the interaction she should have with my daughter should be slow and calculated as she was not used to having her around for a year and that she had been through enough and didn't need her routine messed up with added drama. My wife was receptive to that.

Now, regarding us, she is still begging to come home but I still have my concerns. So far, she has promised to be committed to me exclusively and has said that she has signed up for counseling but has still not attended for some reason. Every time I bring it up she gets angry(controlling behavior perhaps??? I'm not sure but it is uncomfortable).

Having some time alone has given me some time to reflect about our marriage and I have come to the conclusion that we have never communicated honestly to each other throughout our marriage. So, what do I mean by that? I think that we kind of just lived our lives and never talked about important things. When we did usually we would disagree and she would get very angry so I think I just choose not to talk about them anymore which wasn't healthy. I think I should be able to say what I want without her reacting in an angry manner on every thing she disagrees about.

I'm still really struggling with which way to go on this. She seems really remorseful but there really is a lot of damage. I am struggling at times to believe that she is sincere and am asking myself what are her true intentions? She's made statements about not getting to see her daughter and about how her finances have suffered(I assume because she has gone in debt to furnish her apartment and buy her new car). And then there's days where she talks about how she regrets treating me the way that she did. So, I really don't know which way to go at times or what to think. Part of me still wants to work this out and the other part of me says to hell with it, nothing is worth this much work.

I wonder how many folks feel the way that I do?

[AFWAW]

Does she really have a habit of mocking and/or ridiculing your efforts?

It felt like at times she did. I don't know if it was a defense mechanism for her or what but she made the comment last year that she never felt like she was good enough for me? I think that's where this comes from maybe.

Does she measure success purely by the number of material possessions one has? I feel sorry for her in one way as I once thought like this - it comes from a place of real psychological impoverishment.

If you asked her that then she would say no absolutely not but actions do speak louder than words and when we were together she shopped quite a bit and we never really had any savings. Anytime we had a good chunk of change, she was looking for a way to spend it and we didn't need anything. She has gotten herself so far into debt right now that she has stopped paying me child support because she claims she cannot pay her bills and child support and live. Hmmmmmmm.

Please, please stay firm in your boundaries. You mentioned in an earlier post that she had been intimate with 6 men during your "situation". Has this been addressed in any way?

I am trying to stay firm in my boundaries but I think her patience is wearing thin. She is ready to move on I think at times because I have not wavered in what I want. Regarding the 6 men, she just admitted this to me recently. I was pretty disgusted and hurt even after all this time that she would do this so I really don't know what to think. Whenever I attempt to talk about it, she gets really defensive and doesn't want to talk about it which is why I think she needs counseling which she claims to have signed up for but still has not gone to.

Another thing, she keeps bringing up to me that her lease is up in April and will I let her move back home or does she need to find another place. She keeps bringing that up and I think that is her deadline for me to make a decision although she has not come out and said this to me. I personally don't think I will let her logistics problem drive me decision but I can see where she would try to use this as logic to attempt to sway my decision. That's human nature, right? Whatever is easiest. I'll come back home and we can forget that all this ever happened. Yeah, ok.

Once again, I have a very tough decision to make.

[GH31]

I think I should be able to say what I want without her reacting in an angry manner on every thing she disagrees about.

Yes you should be able to say whatever you want (as long as it's without demands, disrespect and anger) without having to walk on eggshells, terrified of her temper and how she might react.

In countries like North Korea it's not the right to agree which causes anyone any problems. It's the right to disagree which is hugely problematic for individuals in countries like these.

Which countries does everyone want to live in? Iran? North Korea? Cuba? Former East Germany?

Not on your life. It's no accident that millions have sought to come to countries like Australia, the United States, the UK and elsewhere in Western Europe. It's because they can disagree without the threat of punishment.

I don't believe things are any different, really, in the home.

Which kind of home would you want to live in?

I'm still really struggling with which way to go on this. She seems really remorseful but there really is a lot of damage. I am struggling at times to believe that she is sincere and am asking myself what are her true intentions?

I mean what I am about to say with the greatest of respect AFWAW. Her intentions are to get her needs met however that is achieved.

She's made statements about not getting to see her daughter and about how her finances have suffered(I assume because she has gone in debt to furnish her apartment and buy her new car).

Is there any insight into how her choices and judgment have ocassioned her dire financial state? Any danger of personal responsibility being taken?

And then there's days where she talks about how she regrets treating me the way that she did.

Telling you what she thinks you want to hear? (Playing Devil's Advocate here)

So, I really don't know which way to go at times or what to think. Part of me still wants to work this out and the other part of me says to hell with it, nothing is worth this much work.

I feel for you AFWAW, and, you have my utmost support. This is only my opinion which you are free to take on board or to reject - it's insight which is key to your wife and whether you feel safe with her. Does she truly see how her actions have occasioned the current status of her life?

[Onthemountaintop]

I still want my wife to fulfill her responsibility as a mom regardless if we reconcile or not.

I follow that. You might have to go for work, your d still needs some stability, even if it isn't the best kind. If you've given up on her as a parent, maybe a daycare is better. If not, then why have your d go through a non-parent.

she has signed up for counseling but has still not attended for some reason.

You seem to be making some excuses for her. My W needs self-esteem counselling. Maybe it is I'm such an a** that she needs it, but she still does. This leads to a lot of fights, so without it, I do not believe our M can survive. I set a boundary. You do, then we'll talk. It looks like bullying, but I don't think it is...maybe it is, though...

I'm still really struggling with which way to go on this. She seems really remorseful but there really is a lot of damage.

As said earlier, 6 men sounds high. Sounds like she almost testing out other men or using them for the touch. My W went overseas to see her family. She had a bad trip and became scared, thinking someone was chasing her. A man offered to help her, but she ended off holding his hand to try to regain her 'strength' by lowering her fear...weird for a man, not weird for her.

Are you going through counselling, too?



I wonder how many folks feel the way that I do? [/quote]

[AFWAW]

Yes you should be able to say whatever you want (as long as it's without demands, disrespect and anger) without having to walk on eggshells, terrified of her temper and how she might react.

Nope, no demands, disrespect or anger. We talked a few times this week and every time it's pressure about what my decision is. If I bring up counseling, she hangs up the phone. Then she'll call back and say she's ready to move on. I got home today and the house was a mess again. I asked my daughter how it was going on how she felt around her mom this week. She said that it was fine but that her mom had gotten angry with her a couple of times. Ok, sounds about normal. Then I got a call from the wife with the SOS about I needed to make a decision or she was going to go buy her own house cause she wasn't going to live in an apartment anymore and she wanted to come home.

I'll be honest. I want her to come home because I love her but I don't want to put up with this anger crap. She says she doesn't want to be alone anymore. I can only assume that she'll have someone else very quickly if I decide she can't come home based on this past year. It really pisses me off that I can't tell her how I feel without her getting angry.

[Onthemountaintop]

Then I got a call from the wife with the SOS about I needed to make a decision or she was going to go buy her own house cause she wasn't going to live in an apartment anymore and she wanted to come home.
....
It really pisses me off that I can't tell her how I feel without her getting angry.

My W does that too. Suddenly, it's like the end of the world if a decision hasn't been made. In a way, she is anti-DB in her technique -pursuing and trying to force a decision. Do you blame her? Wouldn't you do that if you didn't know what you know?

Yesterday was my first day to refuse some R talking. I told her what I was doing or what she was, but I wouldn't talk about why, how I felt, why I felt, etc. At oe point, she began, so I said I can't talk about this and I had to leave. It felt good...and saved my 30 min discusson that probably would've been pretty hurtful.

[GH31]

We talked a few times this week and every time it's pressure about what my decision is. If I bring up counseling, she hangs up the phone. Then she'll call back and say she's ready to move on.

I shook my head as I read this. It's a wind-up, it really is. Screwing around with your head like this.

I'll be honest. I want her to come home because I love her

Of course you do mate.

but I don't want to put up with this anger crap.

And you don't have to. I think it's great that you're not taking her back unconditionally, that you're keeping the readmission price high.

She says she doesn't want to be alone anymore. I can only assume that she'll have someone else very quickly if I decide she can't come home based on this past year.

Then let her. Nothing will ever be as good as you and she knows this. She simply, somehow, needs to make the conceptual leap to mutual respect and keeping you at ease when you discuss topics about which you have a difference of opinion.

Please don't take her back until/unless you're sure that she gets this.

[Onthemountaintop]

don't take her back until/unless you're sure that she gets this.

I was separated, but in a moment of fear I reconciled. While the make up sex was great and all, our issues were not yet solved.

So we're back down D lane, but the hard part is that she now is less secure than before.

No one knows if your W is going to "see the light" and come running back, but GH31 is right - make sure you feel that your core issues are being worked on heavily or solved.

[AFWAW]

Well let's see. The wife has stayed over this weekend and asked if she could stay over last night as well. We have not ML and it's almost like we're roommates? She has kept up w/ the pressure bit. She keeps yammering on about her lease running out on her apartment and that she needs to know something by 14 Feb or she has to renew her lease. She could rent month to month but that's obviously more expensive.

The first day I was back from my business trip I commented to me daughter that that house needed to be picked up and proceeded to do so. When the wife got home, she asked me daughter if I complained about the house and she said yes. So the wife confronted me and and asked if I said that. Yep, I did but it wasn't as bad as my daughter said. She said, well I'm going back to my apartment then and proceeded to pitch a fit. I said, Ok, see ya. Then she called my daughter a liar and asked if I was going to confront her on it. I told her no, my daughter only expressed to you what she heard and percieved and that does not make her a liar. The wife was shocked and accused me of siding with my daughter. Here's where it gets good.

I told her that I had no reason to not trust my daughter and wasn't going to be a hammer on something that really wasn't that important. She asked, so you don't trust me? NO, I don't. Why not? Are you serious? I asked her what kind of relationship she wanted to have with her daughter? Did she want to mend it or come in and be unsupportive and overbearing and have a daughter that didn't want to be around her? She listened, to what extent, I don't know.

Anyway, she settled down over the weekend but Monday night it was back to demanding, negative, pressuring, tired WAW. She basically demanded a parking spot back in the garage which I ignored. The only thing I have asked for is that she go to counseling--I have asked twice about this and her response both times is that she has not had time to call.

How do you make someone understand something without being overbearing and insensitive? I want her to understand that I will not reward bad behavior.

I've shared all this with my father and he asked if I would do something for him. I said sure. He said, I want you to get some duct tape and cut about a 12 inch piece and put it on your leg. I want you to pull it until it is almost all the way off and then I want you to put it back on cause that's what you are doing with this marriage. I thought that was ironically funny.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I'm with your father.

Why in the world would you want all of this CRAP back in your life, John? You are (were?) doing SO MUCH BETTER without her!

How do you make someone understand something without being overbearing and insensitive? I want her to understand that I will not reward bad behavior.

But you DO. You've gotten intermittently better at it over the past six months, but you ultimately let her back in with her crap behavior anyway, so you have "taught" her to treat you this way. Can't you see??? (NOTE TO MODS: We need a "head banging against wall" emoticon!)

Puppy