missherlove, Thank you so much, you do make me feel better. I have decided to tell OWH tonight and not wait until Monday. That day was the only day I knew for sure OW would be at work, and her H is at home. However, I know longer care if she is there or not, I will be telling OWH tonight!!!!
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
I have said this before.. make sure you have some EVIDENCE... your say so that you saw a kiss isn't enough.
Your husband is as predicted in denial phase... you need to collect emails, phne calls, get friends to follow them.. HIRE a private investigator if you have to.
The problem is now that you confronted him, he knows you're watching so he will be extra careful.
We all know he's lying about the "friend kiss", but that's not going to wash.
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You need to stop trying to do Family Therapy with him. By this I mean, if you challenge him about staying away from OW, its NOT going to work, he's going to just challenge you as being controlling.
if a FT tells him to do it, it will carry a LOT more weight.
Did you buy those books yet?
As far as being controlling, that's just a cop out in my opinion. Control is good thing, the opposite is OUT of control which is the state of many marriages... keeping them IN control would keep them from ending up in divorce.
In my opinion NOT enough control is put into a marriage which is why they end up in the gutter... This "You're too controlling" thing is just BS... don't accept that.
Spouses having affairs play that
"you're too controlling"
card all the time. What they MEAN is
I want the perrogative to come and go as I please and do whtatever I want in secret, even if it does damage to your marriage and your self-esteem.
Accusing a spouse as being too controlling is equivalent of someone demanding more freedom passive-aggressively.
I would tell him "Don't try that passive-aggressive finger-pointing on me please" it's not constructive.
If a family is in trouble they attend Family Therapy. It may take several sessions to find a FT who works for everyone in the family, but its the most constructive route. Finger pointing just does DAMAGE.
Don't try to negotiate with him. STAY AWAY FROM HIM. We have warned you about him BAITNG you into arguments. He's USING the bait to PROOVE to himself that his hopelessness is well founded.
His thinking goes along these lines :
1. I feel hopeless. I should give up on my marriage 2. My wife doen'st agree and wants to work on our marriage. 3. I will tell her what I think and she will criticize me. <you let him bait you into an argument - this is the point for you to break the cycle> 4. I feel criticized and want out.
This CYCLE will go on endlessly until YOU break it.
You ned to STOP letting him TEST you. He's expecting an argument. When you give him one he gets what he wants... a REASON to keep having an AFFAIR. Stop giving him what he wants and he will STOP CHEATING.
I am NOT teling you to be NICE. I am telling you to NOT argue. You can protest an affair without arguing with him. Ghandi drove BRITAIN out of INDIA without firing a shot.. but he PROTESTED to ANYONE WHO WOULD LISTEN. If Ghandi can get Britain out of India you can get this woman out of your home.
How do you protest without arguing ?
1. Collect proof of an affair 2. Go to Family Therapy ALONE 3. Expose the affair to friends and family 4. Expose the affair to OWH 5. Buy books on infidelity and leave them lying around the house.
NONE of this involves INTERACTING with your HUSBAND at ALL. But it sends a clear message to him that
1. You want your marriage healed 2. The OW is an interference 3. You will NOT tolerate an affair taking place in your marriage 4. You aren't a critical person (since you aren't attacking him at all)
THIS is how to fight an affair effectively. EXPOSURE and PROOF of infidelity.
Do NOT ENGAGE him in talk, he will bait you into being critical and validate his affair. It's a TRAP you keep falling for.
When you talk and be nice in order to proove to him you can fall in love again you are letting HIM LEAD the MARRIAGE repair efforts and he has NO IDEA HOW TO REPAIR A MARRIAGE
Would you let your auto mechanic repair your marriage? Of course not, he has no idea what he's doing. Do NOT let your Husband lead marriage repair efforts.
Tell him outright. I am NOT going to interact with you while you are in contact with that woman. your contact with her is DISRESPECTFUL to me and our children. Do NOT CONTACT me. She is hurting YOU, ME, and YOUR CHILDREN.
Don't even give him an ultimatim. Just tell him he's hurting you and his children and go to Family Therapy without him.
Each time I hit this forum and you post you have talked to him again DON'T DO THAT! OKAY?
SHUT HIM OUT. Tell him he's hurting you by contacting the OW. Dont' even mention the affair. He's just going to bait you into arguing for proof of his infidelity. It's a TRAP.
You tell him he's having an affair He' denies it.
You argue a case to proove it. He rejects your claims
You BOTH end up MISERABLE and in conflict.
BREAK THE CYCLE - Dont' TALK to him.
Find an Intermediary who can handle him visiting the kids etc.
Get a GOOD Family Therapist and hand HIM her business card. THAT will show him
1. You want the marriage 2. You are seeking professional help not inexperienced people (ie OW) 3. You acknowledging you need to work too 4. Marriages CAN be repaired they are repaired all the time 5. There IS HOPE
All of this AGAIN is done withOUT interacting with him. Just HAND him the card with HER note on the back inviting him to make an appointment and LEAVE... or just LEAVE the card where he will find it and send him an email telling him you dropped off the card.
You need to STOP trying to FIX your marriage by TALKING to HIM. That will NOT REPAIR YOUR MARRIAGE.
HUSBAND : Our marriage is hopeless. I want to leave. YOU : Stay away from that woman you are sleeping with. HUSBAND : I am not sleeping with her, we are just friends. YOU : I saw you kissing her. HUSBAND : It was just a friendly kiss - YOU ARE TOO CONTROLLING YOU : No I'm not HUSBAND : Our marriage is hopeless. I want to leave.
See how that cycle repeats?
YOUR CHANCE to break this is to NOT ENGAGE him.
Sample :
HUSBAND : Our marriage is hopeless. I want to leave. YOU : I am NOT going to interact with you while you are in contact with that woman. Your contact with her is DISRESPECTFUL to me and our children. Do NOT CONTACT me. She is hurting YOU, ME, and YOUR CHILDREN.
YOU WALK OUT... do NOT enterain his response.
IGNORE ANYTHING HE HAS to say. YOU told him here that you don't want to talk and WHY. SO you END the conversation.
You state your mind and END the CONTACT. Your mind is
No Contact as long as he's cheating. He KNOWS he's cheating. You don't need to PROOVE it to him. You both know it. Trying to get him to SAY it will just validate his hopelessness and drive him to the OW again.
NO CONTACT is better than DESTRUCTIVE CONTACT ... remember that.
NO CONTACT is bettr than DESTRUCTIVE CONTACT
Just walk away... tell him to leave you alone while he's in contact with her and walk away.
he will DENY the affair. Just WALK away. You BOTH know he's cheating and your message WILL BE HEARD.
But you aren't doing damage, you are showing him your integrity and demanding respect from him. He will hear all of this trust me.
Prooving the affair is a good step forward, but you need intel for that.... that's coming soon.
Leave kleenexes lying around so he can see you've been crycing, but don't cry in front of him... draw his curiousity in.
Get those darn books we told you to buy. Buy some "You can save your marriage" books and leave them aroud so he can see you are working on this... he may even pick one up out of curiousity.
Just don't ENGAGE HIM in conversation. He's just going to turn it into an argument.
How do you be upbeat while all this is giong on? It is hard, but you can do it.
1. You are saving your marriage and your family. You didn't run away and give up. That is something to be PROUD of. 2. You spoke up about the infidelity - you demanding respect - that's something to be proud of 3. You are educating yoruself on infidelity to protect yourself and your home - education is something to be proud of.
You are doing a FAR more respectable thing for you and your kids than he is.. be proud of yourself.
THe less you argue with him, the less you get drawn into his soap opera (and believe me it is one... you dont' see it but they DO argue all the time I am sure)
The more you remain an island from this affair the better you will feel.
You are LETTING him DRAW you into his drama. Just walk away.
State your mind, protest, proove the affair, but do NOT engage him in this drama.
He's like a five year old crying and having a tantrum... you don't cater to that, you just ignore it right?
YOU : I told you I am not interacting with you with this is going on. I will make my own coffee thank you.
HUSBAND : I am not cheating. She's just a friend.
YOU say NOTHING.
You stand up and walk away withOUT looking at him.
HUSBAND follows you.
HUSBAND : She's just a friend. The kiss was nothing. You are overreacting.
YOU : Stay away from me and our children while you are with that person please. Do not talk to me.
HUSBAND : You are way too controlling.
YOU : If you continue to talk to me I will lock myself in my room.
YOu head for your room. Go IN, lock it, and do NOT come out while he's there.
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He KNOW's he's cheating, you don't need to argue the point... no one's being fooled here.
You sidestepped being critical and he WILL NOTICE that. You didn't raise your voice or challenge him or attack him. He WILL NOTICE that. You won't get a thank yo or even an acknowledgement, but he WILL see it trust me.
Just do your work. Read, intel. Contact OWH.
you can call someone on the phone even, but don't ENGAGE him. You can state your case, but sidestep the chance to ATTACK HIM at ALL COSTS ok?
You above have made your point and did NO DAMAGE. He WILL HEAR YOU .. trust me.
Even better, replace the word "constructive" with the words "not attractive":
"Don't try that passive-aggressive finger-pointing on me; I don't appreciate it and, really, it's not very unattractive."
It's a powerful word.
Puppy
I think you have a typeo there?
Anyhow, I find constructive as as term is easier to emperically qualify. Attractive is a HUGE debating point.
Its up t mb obviously, but i would use "Not constructive"... i use that one here and it does invite some helful convo.
WIFE : OK, so, when you walk out of the house without saying a word is that constructive?
ME : Hmmmm... No, its not. You are right. I won't do that again ok? I am sorry...
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In my home at least, it has proven to promote healthy discussion and some progress... You may have to find a word in yoru home that will work with him... in my home "healthy" and "constructive" works well.. "attractive" would not work nearly as well.. i would be accused of being manipulative if I told her that her behaviour was "unattractive" lol
Do NOT ENGAGE the OW at all... don't even LOOK at her.
Do NOT argue. You show up, state your case. Explain that you LOVE your husband and your family and that you cannot tolerate OW attacking your home and threatening to break up your family this way.
Don't even LOOK at her.
If the OWH is not accepting of your claims just THANK him for his TIME, leave your contact info and LEAVE.
Do NOT turn this into a WAR ZONE. You MUST maintain COMPOSURE OR YOU will just be accused of being "crazy" or "controlling"
You must appear in the role of protective wife and mother ONLY.
Do NOT ENGAGE in argument with HER OR with HIM.
State your case AND LEAVE.
Notes :
1. It is very likley that the OW is NOT having sex with OWH right now.. Women having affairs usually engage in MONOGAMOUS invidelity.. that is, sexual activity is monogamous with ONLY the OM. 2. The OWH has likely noticed her distance and odd arrival times and goings on too. 3. He may not challenge her in PUBLIC.
All you need to do is showup with maturity and directness and leave. The seed has been planted by you in his head... that's all you need to do.
if he is more receptive, ie he knows alrady or suspected, etc. and wants to work with you to proove things, that's great... but do'nt PUSH it.
What you want is to visit her home and show her what it feels like to have a marriage attacked. Her H will do yOUR WORK for you on her end... HE will be WATCHING her more closely after your visit.. HE will be asking her questions and pressuing HER for more contribution to the marriage after yoru visit etc...
You need to learn to let the seeds grow on their own.. you just PLANT them and LEAVE.
Allen A. Thank you for all your advice, when I read it, it makes so much sense to me. Putting it into action is the hard part.
I realize now that I have been pursing H and acting very desperate since he halfheartedly said he wanted to try to work it out. I'm going to try to start focusing on me, and not bring up any R talk (it always seems to be me that starts). I need to start detaching more then ever an act as if.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Even better, replace the word "constructive" with the words "not attractive":
"Don't try that passive-aggressive finger-pointing on me; I don't appreciate it and, really, it's not very unattractive."
It's a powerful word.
Puppy
I think you have a typeo there?
Anyhow, I find constructive as as term is easier to emperically qualify. Attractive is a HUGE debating point.
Yes, it's a "typeo," lol. Sorry. Should say "it's NOT very attractive" or "it's very UNattractive."
And I get that it's not easy to measure, and that it's an emotionally-charged word. That's precisely why it's so POWERFUL.
As former US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said famously, about pornography: "I can't define it, but I know what it is when I see it." Our spouses know what "unattractive" looks like, and they DON'T want to think that they're displaying it!
DON'T DO THAT! OKAY?
Sorry. Should say "it's NOT very attractive" or "it's very UNattractive."