Do you want to at least have a shot at saving your M??? Do you??? Then stop what you are currently doing and detach. Because you are so geek up from being rejected, you can't even see that your situation is so bad, at least it wasn't but you just keep pushing. I would take your situation in a heartbeat.
Do yourself, your kid, your family, and your friends here a favor and go dark as much as posiible. Not to get back at your W, but to help you, to stabalize your mind and emotions. Until that is accomplished by you and only you. You have no shot. Is that what you want?? I don't think so. I know its hard. I know its the hardest thing you have ever had to do, but you must get it done.
You're right...deep down I do want a shot. But theres so much doubt in my mind as to that happening, not only due to my own foolish actions but due to her mindset. I'm scared to death of thinking that some point int he future I "might" have a shot...and then it turn out not to be true.
My ex's mother is still with the boyfriend she left my ex's father for and that's been almost 4 years. I dont think either her mother or father tried DB-ing...but still. My ex seems to be following the same path as her mother...no counseling etc...and it gives me very little hope.
Originally Posted By: Deep
Pearl is right about the carnage here. What exactly have you done to "work on yourself"? And why are you still linking working on yourself to desired reactions from her?
Maybe I misunderstood the advice so far. I guess what you're saying is that "working on me" is just for me and will not affect her? For some reason I always got the impressoin that working on me was not just for me, but for her benefit...to make me into a "shiny" person that she would want to come back to? Please use a 2x4 and let me know if I'm mistaken.
Originally Posted By: Deep
Decide what you want. Helping you cope and move on depends on what you choose.
As I sit here typing this...my D3 turns to me and says "Daddy...I hope mommy wants to come back." It's taking every fiber of my being not to break down in front of her right now.
While I flip flop back and forth, if I could have anything I wanted, what I truely want is for my ex and I to reunite in a new and stronger than ever relationship and for both of use to be happier than ever. But if that can't happen, what I want is to move on and be happy without her and stop feeling like crap due to choices she made that were never under my control.
But I have no crystal ball to see the future...so I dont know what the outcome will be. Is the safer choice to assume things wont ever work out and that I should move on "as if"? I dont want to still be like I am 6 months from now....or even 3 months from now. I dont want to have false hope in the back of my mind.
And I would like to restate the major coparenting issue and would appreciate everyones input on it: She wants us to get along for D3 and even be friends (or maybe just get along given my most recent behavior). How do I handle this? Should I tell her we can get along for our D3? Am I supposed to be friendly with hi's and chitchat when I see her each day? Do I have to/should I do family lunches/events if she asks?
Would doing that be sending the message that I am ok with/accept what happened...with what she did? While thats what she wants me to do...accept things...is that the message I want to send? To me it doesnt feel like it, but some of you vets might see it differently...like if I send that message it might do me some good either now or down the road that I'm not seeing.
And how am I supposed to go dark and detatch if we're getting along and such for our D3? It seems like I would be betraying myself doing that.
I was reading someone else's thread...luvless' I think...and it really bummed me out to hear her say her H was doing fun things to see if he could fall in love with her again.
It made me think about all the fun activities that went on last week between me and the ex...the breakfast/lunches, playing guitar hero, working out at the gym. Meanwhile she claims mid week that she and the OM decided to see one another.
I dont think I will ever know if she was sincerely trying to see if she could fall in love with me again or not by doing all those things and I blew it by showing up Friday...or if she was just stringing me along to soothe her own guilt and said what she did about me blowing it to twist the knife.
Not that it matters. Luvless' thread was just a trigger to a painful question that I need to try and let go of.
What you seem to be missing is you are not in a healthy place to have your W come back. You have not done the work on you therefore the R would eventually contain the same destructive elements that caused the demise the first time around.
The LBS that does the work simply to "attract" their WAS back will fail each time. The work must be authentic and genuine and for you and YOU only.
You have NO control over your WAS. The work is for you and becoming the best person you can be so your present and future is wonderful either way.
You have not even mastered the basic skill set of validation, listening, no pursuit and setting boundaries. You are still highly reactive. OM is not the problem he simply is a product of a marriage gone wrong.
You can listen or not, it's up to you. I have noticed the latest crop of new posters are so intently focused on their WAS they are overlooking what they should be doing. We all get it, we have all been there. I think most of us that have "been there" wish we would have grasped the concepts we now *really* understand the moment we learned about them.
You are furious your WAS is being so resistant. In a way you are doing the same thing. You are being resistant to the only path available to you to create a better man, parent and life.
What you seem to be missing is you are not in a healthy place to have your W come back. You have not done the work on you therefore the R would eventually contain the same destructive elements that caused the demise the first time around.
The LBS that does the work simply to "attract" their WAS back will fail each time. The work must be authentic and genuine and for you and YOU only.
You have NO control over your WAS. The work is for you and becoming the best person you can be so your present and future is wonderful either way.
You have not even mastered the basic skill set of validation, listening, no pursuit and setting boundaries. You are still highly reactive. OM is not the problem he simply is a product of a marriage gone wrong.
You can listen or not, it's up to you. I have noticed the latest crop of new posters are so intently focused on their WAS they are overlooking what they should be doing. We all get it, we have all been there. I think most of us that have "been there" wish we would have grasped the concepts we now *really* understand the moment we learned about them.
You are furious your WAS is being so resistant. In a way you are doing the same thing. You are being resistant to the only path available to you to create a better man, parent and life.
Detaching from your WAS and being a good co-parent are two very different things. No matter what, you need to detach from your WAS and your old marriage. That does not mean you cannot co-parent with your W. The R of co-parent and spouse are very different.
I just read your entire thread again and I think a few key points need to be addressed:
You are correct. No matter how hard you DB, no matter how much you detach, no matter how dark you go there is a good chance it will have no bearing on your WAS. My WAS was and still is as staunch as they come. He has been with OW for close to two years. He lost most of his assets due to his affair. None of that mattered to him and it still doesn't. My H decided how things would be and that was that. Not illness, financial ruin, exposure or legalities phased him a bit. BUT I am okay. Not perfect but very okay and far more okay than I ever have been. His inability to examine his own actions or take accountability for his behavior became painfully obvious to me and I decided to make a good life for me. It is a process. It is terrifying and difficult and humbling. It is also necessary.
Right now, your W views you as the obstacle to her happiness. She does not want to be with you and she wants OM. It is painful but reality. Maybe OM does make her happy or maybe she thinks OM makes her happy. Either way it is *her* reality at this time.
Last week my H told me via e-mail (the only way I will allow him to contact me) that the SAME problems we had our now cropping up in his R with OW. Seeing how I have been removed from his life for close to 2 years clearly his issues will continue to be a factor and it was not all me. He convinced himself it *was* all me and now, well, the cycle is repeating and he is finally grasping the idea that he is not quite as perfect as he thought.
The thing is, I knew all that a LONG time ago. I knew it before my H realized it but you can't force somebody to see or realize something until they are good and ready.
If you have false hope with your W you only have yourself to blame. False hope is something you have control over. The fact remains, as long as your W is with OM there is nothing for you and her to build on. And when somebody wants to be with somebody they will accept any loss or consequence on order to "be happy".
You must remove your W from the equation. Until you do you will spinning and spinning and your life will become a stagnant cycle of anger, hurt, frustration and pain.
Thank you for responding CityGirl...and for being open and honest.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
You have not even mastered the basic skill set of validation, listening, no pursuit and setting boundaries. You are still highly reactive.
I've heard of validation before...what exactly is that?
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
You are furious your WAS is being so resistant. In a way you are doing the same thing. You are being resistant to the only path available to you to create a better man, parent and life.
I am furious at her...and I am being resistant.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Detaching from your WAS and being a good co-parent are two very different things. No matter what, you need to detach from your WAS and your old marriage. That does not mean you cannot co-parent with your W. The R of co-parent and spouse are very different.
I guess I'm confused then...what exactly does co-parenting involve? What are the limits of co-parenting that I can enforce to protect myself emotionally? I would like to be a good co-parent to my daughter without enabling my ex to cake eat or ease any guilt about what she did to me and our family. After the way last week turned out I refuse to do any sort of family events with my ex if its going beyond being a co-parent.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
You must remove your W from the equation. Until you do you will spinning and spinning and your life will become a stagnant cycle of anger, hurt, frustration and pain.
I actually met with my IC today and we discussed some of this. I told him that I couldnt keep doing this...crying, blaming, hurting, etc. I said that in 3 months time if I was still like this it would be unbearable.
He suggested two options. The first I rejected because it was pursuing and would be ultimately be building false hope...it was what I had already came up with of spending time with her (as a family) and being there for her as a friend and whatnot in an attempt to let her de-villainize me/see me as the better option.
The other which I think all of you would agree is what my only true option is, is just to stay busy (GAL) and only have interaction with my ex when she comes to pick up or drop off our daughter or if theres a medical issue. No chit-chat or anything.
For the past day or so I've pretty much done that. It was a little hard and I'm still not sure I'm not being an ass...as I have a hard time looking at my ex when she or I are saying anything, if I say anything. Maybe that will get better with time but for now just looking at her knowing what happend and what is happening disgusts me and makes me angry.
It was interesting...my IC brought up that when I went over to my ex's last friday night, and she gave that big speech about how "i might have had a chance but after what I did I blew it" is a lot like a parent disciplining a child who's acting up. The parent might say "well I was gonna buy you this toy, but since you've been so bad you're not getting it now." And while I cant know what my ex is thinking...or believe anything she will ever admit to given all the lies and deception, that might be how she sees this situation: She's punishing me for what she didnt like about our relationship. Meanwhile...I wasnt made aware that she really was unhappy until she left...and even though I was willing to do whatever it took on my part then to fix things...she didnt want to do any of the work on her part to fix it...she just chose the easy way out.
So now its just me...working on me...hoping to find some peace.
How could you possibly expect to build anything with your W if you do not even understand validation?
Your goal is not to be a good co-parent for your daughter, you goal is to co-parent with your W. Your daughter needs a mom and a dad to parent even if the mom and dad are divorced.
Yes, you do need to GAL but you also need to educate yourself on the basics (validation, boundary setting and co-parenting).
If you admit you are being resistant how can you be upset with your W for the same thing? All you are doing is creating a power struggle that will build with such force it will be close to impossible to stop.
How can you refuse to do any "family events" with your W that does not involve co-parenting if you don't even know what co-parenting entails?
Basically it seems you wanted your W and family back but decided wanting it was enough and nothing more was required on your part other than desire. When that plan backfired it is easier to blame your W and OM instead of examining what you CAN change. (hint: you can change you).
You want your W to change but you don't want to change.
And how in the world do you expect to raise a child if the ONLY reason you feel is necessary to talk to your W about is medical issues?
What about education, activities and all the other stuff in a child's life that needs the attention of BOTH parents?
Here is the bottom line... you can continue to say "I can't even look at my W as she makes me feel disgusted and angry" (chances are she is thinking the same thing about you) or you can tackle those feelings on your own and present something different to your W. What you are doing now, IMO, is participating in the equivalent of a grade school staring contest. This time though your future and the future of your child is at stake and the "game" becomes awfully dangerous.
Do yourself a favor and learn the basics. Don't just hope you heal, make a plan *to* heal. Remove the term "false hope" for your vocabulary. Find a way to deal with your anger/disgust and learn how to stop reacting on emotion. If you take those steps and really do the work your life will get better.
You have not done the work on you therefore the R would eventually contain the same destructive elements that caused the demise the first time around. The LBS that does the work simply to "attract" their WAS back will fail each time. The work must be authentic and genuine and for you and YOU only. You have NO control over your WAS. The work is for you and becoming the best person you can be so your present and future is wonderful either way. You have not even mastered the basic skill set of validation, listening, no pursuit and setting boundaries.
Amen!
nsw, from where I sit, you continually ask, "what should I do?", get the same sage advice from everyone and then respond with, "What should I do?"
Pick ONE DB action ad DO it. Until it is automatically incorporated into your repertoire. Then pick another. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
And, frankly, Man Up.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
