4luv - It is sad but true. Most people involved in an A are not just going to wake up one day and think, "You know, this is a lousy s^*@y thing to be doing. I should go make amends." As long as the disturbances in the fantasy are minor they can be overlooked and ignored. It's only when our life becomes a total train wreck that we stop and take stock.
*sigh* It is the goal of a parent to see us happy. And so they sometimes do what seems to fit that goal. Mine did. They didn't understand my choices one bit, but I looked very happy, so they said nothing. I would try not to think too badly of them. I hope that I would be able to tell my sons the truth if they were being fools, but it would be hard as a mom.
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Hmmm maybe we could give you our WASs phone numbers and you can call them with this message! LOL
Thanks for the vote of confidence. But I might swear a lot - I tend to get Turrets when I deal with people acting stupid.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
Undeafeated, that was a power and insightful testimony. You answered a lot of questions for me as my wife has been gone for almost 3 months and doesn't communicate with me or our adult sons or even the grandkids, whom prior to A, treated them as if they were our kids not our grandkids. She never calls to check on them. I guess the fog must really be thick. The last time I saw her, she looked so unhappy, I expected her to try and put her best foot forward and do all she could to impress me that she was doing great.She also has gained weight. Not what I expected to see.
AS for no one calling her on her actions, this has been one of my biggest disappointments. No one on either side has been willing to step up and say anything. On her side, she is her moms third daughter to do this and mom did also. Maybe thats why they are not saying anything. I asked GOD if I was correct to expect someone to get involved because I think I would have. Of course if you ask GOD, he will answer, he took me to Gal. 6:1 and Ecc 4:9,10.
I often wonder if my W feels she has let so many people down and done so much damage that she can't return. Did you feel that way or can relate to that thought.
Undefeated you have blessed me with your candor and insight.
"From my perspective, there is absolutely nothing he could do to make me change my mind. There is no "task" he could do - marital counseling, flowers, being remorseful, etc. - that would change my mind. He asked something once (paraphrasing): How sorry do I have to be to win you back?
The problem is that regret/remorse/changing himself is not the currency that would stop the D. It's just not relevant to this whole sad situation.
Like I put in another post, when he asks that makes as little sense as someone asking you "What car should I buy?" and someone answers "3:30pm."
I don't want to be a finger-wagger here, and there seems to be a lot of good advice. But I wanted to share my insight with those who might be in a similar situation and give my perspective." [/quote]
Maybe, this is a little finger wagging here as I have seen this post in another place on this board.Could it be that you have pigeon-hole yourself and would like to find a way to forgive your H. Reading your post for the second times just sounds a little self righetous to me. Its certainly your right to decide whats best for your life but that right exists also for each of us here. It sounds to me as if you are trying to convince others to make the same stand as you. Just an observation from a fellow DBer.
Its certainly your right to decide whats best for your life but that right exists also for each of us here. It sounds to me as if you are trying to convince others to make the same stand as you. Just an observation from a fellow DBer.
Goldfiber, you are reading my message wrong. Nowhere have I said that other people do not have a right to attempt to save their marriage or that people here should make the same stand as me. If anything, I /emphasized/ that I was writing from my perspective. I know this website has helped me understand some of the actions that he's doing to slow down the divorce.
I posted here because I thought it might help for people who are going through a divorce and DON'T want to be divorced to understand the perspective of someone who is the one filing for it. Just another perspective, not a plea for solidarity.
If anything, I would think it would HELP DB practitioners to see how their WAS might be thinking. If these tips help, that's great...I put in my post that there was a lot of good advice here.
But let me more general: I think that every person who is the one who files for divorce has some type of "line" that they cross where divorce becomes the best option to take. Whether it's infidelity - as in my case - or meeting someone else or not being in love with your spouse, there's a point where you are unwilling or unable to go backwards.
So when LBS ask the question: how can my husband/wife leave years of marriage or kids or something like that, the answer becomes remarkably simple. Filing for divorce is the best choice for the current situation.
I'm not saying it's the correct choice - clearly a lot of people here would rather be married than divorced - but it is, for lack a better word, the BEST choice. And I mean "best" as "best" for the person who wants the marriage to end.
That's why some people call it a "fog. And that's also because some believe that actions boil down to choices and decisions, and that integrity matters.
All married people took a vow of sorts, with some variant of "For better or worse". There was no caveat that "Hey, but if the 'worse' includes you betraying me, then all bets are off." Or "Gee, you know about that 'worse' part? what I meant was that as long as it does not get too uncomfortable for me that I want out or if it does not fit my idea of what married life should be".
Choices. Decisions. You take a vow, you stand by it. You choose not to, that's also your move. But it's a dangerous, even chaotic, notion to think it's ok to walk out when a "line" is crossed. "I don't love you any more". "You don't take out the garbage like I want you to". "You were playing hide the sausage with my best friend!". In cases of obvious abuse, sure it's udnerstandable, even needed, but how do you draw the line otherwise? Ergo, the issues of entitlement and the "fog".
Me 42 W 39 Married: 11 Jan 1998, T: Since 1992 First Bomb: Sep 2007 Confirmed A/OM: 4 Nov 2007 Kids: D10, S5 Reconciled and together again after (alot of) time and heartbreak. 3rd kid, S, born 2 Jan 2010.
Knitten, I appreciate your perspective as another way to understand the WAS. There are certain specific situations that fit your model, but after you read all the WAS stories, the fog is real.
I happen to agree with Deep: choices, decisions, vows, integrity. No offense, just a difference of opinion.
I happen to agree with Deep: choices, decisions, vows, integrity. No offense, just a difference of opinion.
Dane, no offense taken. I didn't post here to argue people's definitions on words like choices, decisions, vows, integrity.
The only debate that matters with those words is between two spouses, and sometimes they agree and remain married and other times they don't and they divorce. No harm in either choice.
I just wanted to answer the question of the original poster: What did you and your spouse do to get things on the right track?
In my case, there were no possible options to get back on track. Other people have had different experiences. C'est la vie!
I often wonder if my W feels she has let so many people down and done so much damage that she can't return. Did you feel that way or can relate to that thought.
Oh absolutely I did. I believe that once a cheating WAS has even a glimpse at remorse (as I did from time to time, even in my fog) it eats at them. It did me. Hurting someone I love is not something that I forgave myself for easily. And the feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness I felt festered and drew me down.
knittedscarff - I am glad you found the right option for you. I think that is important. It seems like it would be hard, though, to live in a world of only black or white. No grey area. I think it must be a difficult path to walk, and for that I admire your dedication to yourself if not your viewpoint.
undefeated 24 H 24 S's 4, 2, 1 M 5 yrs
"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all." ~Dale Carnegie
Kitten- forgive me, as I do not know much of your sitch. Cheating for me as well is a deal-breaker- however, I have found that I am mitigating the actions of my WAW based on the fact that we were both lonley and unhappy and did little to address the issues of our M-in a timely fashion. It's funny b/c in my sitch we were at the point of making the changes, then the bomb that same week- but no mention of OM. Now had the M always been strong and a great bond, connection and the SP steps out, forget about it- done, done, done.
I am glad you are making the best choice for you. I think its a lot easier to seek D when you have been the one betrayed. I am just an LBS who wants one real chance to have the M we both deserved.
