A Choice

[Deep]

Well as a semi-hijack, Sandi, a lot of words similar to yours were said to me by my W much later in our sitch. It helped keep me in control of some emotions.

As you know, it takes the WAS a long time, if ever, to reach that stage. And the LBS can also go through a whole range of emotions, hidden resentments, triggered anger etc even after the "return". some of these are really unforseen, and I think it varies for everyone as individuals.

Detachment to me does not mean you do not care. You do, greatly. The outcome of your struggles for your M and happiness within that M is important. But part of it is that you know you can do your level best in the areas where you have impact, and that you can find acceptance and contentment regardless of the final overall outcome.

Btw. I think you're hurting in a way patpat. I wouldn't describe your W as pursuing you. Yet. I may be wrong but part of you seems to be pretty fixated on your W "pursuing you". I believe you may actually move on ok if she did totally walk out and slam the door shut now, but part of you puts a premium on the pusuit. Right now, she hasn't even given up OM. In terms of running after you, she hasn't even got her running shoes on yet.

Yups, GAL etc. You do what you need to do to get through a day at a time. Stoicism is a valuable attribute at times, but over the long term, it is important to also see the difference between that and a strength that comes from being totally at peace.

[Coach]

How do you detach without detaching (from the M)?


Aaaaah, the million dollar question...

This helped me:

In a business book by James C. Collins called Good to Great, Collins writes about a conversation he had with Stockdale regarding his coping strategy during his period in the Vietnamese POW camp.[3]

"I never lost faith in the end of the story, I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade."[4]

When Collins asked who didn't make it out, Stockdale replied:

"Oh, that’s easy, the optimists. Oh, they were the ones who said, 'We're going to be out by Christmas.' And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they'd say, 'We're going to be out by Easter.' And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart."[4]

Stockdale then added:

"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”[4]

Witnessing this philosophy of duality, Collins went on to describe it as the Stockdale Paradox.

Cheers

[sandi2]

"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”[4]

That makes me think of something that has helped me in my life. "For we know that all things work together for good to them that love God and are called to His purpose" Rom. 8:28

It's not just a promise, but a way of living life.

[patpat]

Hey Deep.... I guess I should explain W pursuing.....

It started when I thought I had finally had enough about three weeks ago.... I had been treating my W just as she had been treating me.... exactly!

This got her attention. Awhile back I actually thought W was DB'ing me because her LRT was so dammmmmm good.

Things got really quiet for a while. No contact was no contact. I am a mouth by nature....talk alot, center of the party most places and W knows I can not keep mouth shut to save a life. She started to call. I was short, business like and ended first leaving her to think I was extremely busy.

This also bothered her as I am somewhat of a home body.

W's crap got thick and I acted as if... and then just by chance found myself just not wanting this anymore... this the pain, this the wait, this the fear of her coming home and the could I really forgive.... I had just had enough.

I answered the phone one day and was initially short than asked her how she was.... she told me she would like to put our D on hold. I asked why. She said, she needed more time to figure us out and to see if the OM was really what she wanted.

This just got under my skin. I said to her (because I was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
pissed yet in a calm voice.... I sure hope he is what you want because he is all you have right now. I WANT A D!

She started questioning why.... as if she did not already know.
I just realized that my life is not [censored]. I told her that. I told her that her life was [censored] and she stepped into it big time.... Good luck with that and hung up....

I went back to GAL'ing and that is how it has begun.

I don't journal much because I really can not type. This is taking me a long time....

But W has just shown up places where I am. Stating she wants to come home. Would consider counciling etc.... but I did not think she was real so I ignore.

I started telling her how good the OM was for her.... and telling her that since he is a younger man (and W has health problems) and that he will be stronger as she ages to carry and care for her. That after he gets to know her as I do over time.... he will truely have the opportunity to love everything that she has been hiding from him. This I think scares wife. Wcalls more often, states she thinks about us all the time. OM is no longer in her apartment.

I had dinner and went to a Christian concert with a friend.... opposite sex and W found out. Got very upset, telling me I was a married man and should not be out with other women. Tried to move back in, I was moving out. S18 told her that he did not want her back in the house.

W tring to fix herself... now in C, IC - wants to go to M workshops etc.... follows around, drives by house etc.... she is heading for a crash and that is what I need.

Sh!t.... I even ran into the OM the other day and he asked me for help... that she was becoming distant and talks about her relationship with me. OM has moved from honey to friend to out of the apartment and W is trying hard. I talk to her daily now.... she talks about R, so do I.... very constructive.

We have been able to back up 2 years of hurt on both parts, but agree that all started with her drug addiction. She apologizes.

Me.... Boundaries. W can give up OM. Me.... Boundaries..... W is having a hard time giving up our best friends of the last 15 years. These folks (our so called friends) let my W sleep with OM in their house. They (our friends) are a source and constent reminder of the pain I have been feeling. I do not want them in my life. I will not have that. She wants to keep them as friends. Can't reconcile this way. her sister and mother.... [censored] is deep. They too have allow this behavior. Me.... Boundaries. I do not want nor will I accept mother or sister in MY LIFE. W needs to choose. She thinks I am unfair. I told her she damaged these relationships when she chose OM and went 100% public with A. Now, she does not want it. What has changed for her, why does she want to come home... and if she wanted it that badly, she would agree to my boundaries and maybe over time... friendships and family would begin to heal.

But for now.... I am moving on and that is where I am at. Don't carry a pic of W anymore, she is in my face daily. That is the pursuit I speak of and there is also more but fingers going numb ( only use 2 to type ya know.... I suck at puters).

I do not want to D. I want and choose my M. But W need to prove to me that she does also. She needs to meet my conditions and then we can talk the hard walk. We can do this I know. I love my MIL and SIL very much. We were all very close. But these relationship aere going to take time to heal. This will not come until after MR has reconciled. W does not understand, as I believe she is not serious about what she thinks ahe wants.....

I am preparing for the end (death of the M). I am ok with this. I want W back. But I will not be the doormat.

And I got time. Hell, I am Gal'ing having fun, living and laughing.... sometimes even with W. It is a long road (as all here have stated) and either way, whatever the end result... sad as it often seems.... I am fine!

She is pursuing and I like it. I think it is helping her to come back. She slowly is becoming the girl I met many years ago. Back then, she would have disregarded everyone just to be in the same room with me. It will in time, maybe, get there again.

It is not control for me. Just me knowing how I want this to come about. She knows what she needs to do. She needs to win my heart; after it heals. To prove herself commited to the R and the hard work it will take to fix. And to set boundaries for herself and respect mine. When this happens, we will be fine and on the road to healing our M....

Thats it I think....


Thanks Deep...

[patpat]

Coach....

I have read many if not just about everything you have posted.

My friend... you are one class act... KEEP DOING WHAT YOU DO!

And Thank you for that.... it puts my mind in a good place.

[patpat]

{{{S2}}}

Right on the sensor....

[luvless]

Wow Pat - talk about the tables turning - I love it!

[patpat]

I love you luv... thought I'd just get that out of the way!


Thanks... everyone told me that I needed to get her to pursue... you know, like it was during the courtship before the M. I am working on it... time will tell.

Been jumping in and out of your thread... waiting for somethings to hit me right before I respond.

I am hurting with you abt what your H is doing... why can't our spouses just wake up and see...

I will tell you this much...... Gal'ing is great! If and when I get to Cali.... I am comin' to scoop ya.... I've been to LA several times when I was in my 20's. Got friends in Pasadena. I lived in Salinas (San City) for a spell (4 yrs).

Party every night on carmel beach just about. Take cessna flights to the Chic Pass mountains..... friend fliing the plane what a scare!

Had a bad wreck on a motorcycle on 580 going from San Jose to Sacremento. And for a long time, (in my heart) lived on the Donner Lake in Truckee. I have a very close friend that lives in Truckee to this day and often calls me to come out for a visit. Just have not found the time lately. That will need to change.

luv, have you seen "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey...

I loved that movie.

That's Gal'ing. Sayin' yes and just going and doing. When you do fun things for yourself, you find your laugh.... laughing will take you places.... promise! And it attracts people to you... opens up some opportunities for some very unforgetable moments.....

I wish all of the DB'ing folks were closer, or there was a chat board or something. It would be cool to talk in real time kinda sorta... of course, I am no typer so for me it would be delayed time!

But yeah... the tables did turn..... not like I expected them too but it is a start.... even if it is a nasty one.

But W is having difficult time with boundaries.... She will prob never understand... I am preparing for the D...

But hey luv, there is the Dodgers game.....!

[patpat]

Just a correction before someone beats me up...

I do not GAL with W right now... it reads that way but I meant the last part... the laughing part...

[luvless]

Hey Pat,

I just went through your entire thread! I am amazed that you've come this far.

I hope to be where you are...with or without my H. I laughed out loud at your ending words "she's mean.." I thought so is my H LOL and am really asking now do I want him? scary bcuz I'm so hurt yet wanting to save the M...damn its confusing.

I am 20 mins from Pasadena...great place to hang out.

Don't forget me at your nightly or morning prayer session - I know God is listening to you