WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

I hear you pigskin. This came up today. We had an initial mediation appointment and there wsa a part where my wife said "I want to do what's best for my kids" and I almost got sick. What she really meant was "what is best for the kids in a situation where I want to move out for my own selfish reasons".

Some observations from the initial mediation appointment:

L made it clear to W that she would be expected to work full time: "The court will assume that BOTH parents are working FULL TIME to provide for their children"

W didn't like to hear that - this is the 3rd of 3 L that I have talked to that has confirmed this fact. All of her information had come from toxic friends that told her support would be based on what she has done for years and not what she was capable of earning. The thing that also amazes me is that the L she had consulted individually didn't tell her this. I think she focused on what W wanted to hear because she was trying to sign up a client.

She really sounded bad at one point when she told the L when we talked about child support something about being compensated for years of child care (???). I don't know if she realized how ridiculous she sounded, but L's response was that 'whatever went on in the past is ignored when it comes to determining support - in takes into account the situation today'.

W kept pushing for the interim solution by asking whether or not we really needed to do a full settlement agreement for me to have to pay her if she moved out right away. L told her she can do what she wants and can leave any time but that I don't have to pay her anything unless she retains an attorney and gets a court order for child support, etc. I told her that if we come up with a settlement then we can talk about interim solutions related to paying support once she moves out.

I think the L gave her a real dose of reality today. This is tough business. W didn't look too good during the session, especially when L told her she would be expected to work FULL TIME. She has been living in a toxic-friend-fueled-dreamworld about all this (toxic friend is divorced but not too smart). I think toxic friend also gave her the line about compensation for past child support - it just doesn't sound like something my wife would think of. what about the hard work I put in over the years so she could stay home most days to take care of the kids?

This initial appointment was paid for by her, but to go further we would need to pay a retainer. we left it up in the air as far as when the next appointment would be. I don't have the money for the retainer right now anyway, but we'll see what happens.

W was really nice this evening when we all got back home.

[pigskin]

I hear you pigskin. This came up today. We had an initial mediation appointment and there wsa a part where my wife said "I want to do what's best for my kids" and I almost got sick. What she really meant was "what is best for the kids in a situation where I want to move out for my own selfish reasons".

Next time correct her. What's best for the kids is to keep the family together and restore a loving relationship. What she is after is what makes her feel better about how badly the kids are going to get screwed.

[MrBond]

"I don't have the money for the retainer right now anyway, but we'll see what happens."

Let her pay for it. I'm a firm believer in - if they want it, let 'em pay for it.

[tryingtilDorR]

Pigskin - actually, I did make that comment - I said something like "the best thing for the kids is if we find a way to not break he family apart". It was interesting since I ended up biting my toungue for most of the session except to provide relevant facts about our financial situation and assets and when I stated on a couple of occasions what my goals were (work on a final settlement). I didn't need to say much really - my W wants this separation and so I let her try to tell the L what she wanted, and it was really interesting listening to someone else respond to her wishes/desires that she couldn't argue too much with.

I agree Stuck - it turns out that she has her own money that she could use to pay for this but she had mentioned putting it on a credit card, etc etc. I don't think she will do that. I am waiting for the dust to settle and then see what she wants to do next.

I think she is digesting the whole working full time thing - that is something she has INSISTED that she wouldn't have to do and I don't think she has really considered how that will impact her life. She spends her days working out, shopping, going to lunch, etc etc. It would cramp her lifestyle in major ways.

She also has just wanted to do this thing where we keep the kids in the house but each have our own place, but I was pushing for a 'final agreement' which would be just like a divorce even if we are separated - again, I am not sure she is ready to face that either. I am letting her stew and see what happens. I have to travel a lot with my new job so I will be gone a lot over the next month.

[MrBond]

You did good with not mentioning anything in the meeting. Let her dig her own hole. Once she digs far enough down, she's going to poke her head up and wonder how the hell she got in there.

"I think she is digesting the whole working full time thing - that is something she has INSISTED that she wouldn't have to do and I don't think she has really considered how that will impact her life. She spends her days working out, shopping, going to lunch, etc etc. It would cramp her lifestyle in major ways."

Don't mind this at all. She's going to do things that are destructive during this period. Protect yourself and your assets as best as you can.

[tryingtilDorR]

Another interesting comments she made when she was panicking after the mediator said she would be expected to work more was:

"I have only worked 2 days/week for 20 years and I need to be around for my kids. I need to pick them up from school. My one friend said I can expect to not have to work since that is my 'lifestyle', and my brother in law had to pay SIL $$$$ and she didn't work"

Mediator's response: Things will change and this is a consequence of living apart in two separate households. Also, it is OK to talk to people, but don't make assumptions based upon others' situation because the slightest difference in the scenario can have an impact on the settlement/support amount...

I know this. The SIL she was referring to had no job and no job skills, so my BIL had to pay her a lot while she got training in some area. My W is skilled but just chooses to only leverage those skills part time.

We have all the grandparents and aunts and uncles in town, and I have 2 teenagers that drive also. Yes, I would love to have a W who would stay home and care for my children, but when you decide you want to be single there are REAL consequences - your life can't just remain as close to the same as possible and the kids not impacted. She also has this fantasy that if we just alternately left the house and each had our own place that it doesn't impact the kids. Huh? Mom and Dad don't live with us at the same time anymore? Why?

[MrBond]

Don't bother trying to analyze it. Dorothy's lost in Oz right now and is trying at avoid getting hit by the house.

Someone summed it up best when they said if you look at your W as someone with a mental illness, it's easier to take the craziness that comes out of their mouths.

So I pictured my W as the homeless guy on the corner who keeps muttering to himself. Made things much more tolerable when she went on her tirades.

[tryingtilDorR]

Well I thought (I should stop doing that) that since we had been to mediator we could now discuss terms of separation with each other. Boy was I wrong.

I told her yesterday: "If you want to leave I agree to pay you based upon what we learned from the mediator/L and will file for D. We can finish up with L later on to come up with the final agreement, but I can file myself initially and avoid paying the retainer until later."

Translation - now that you were told that you will be expected to work full time we can agree on the amount of money I will pay and if you leave we can take steps, but defer the full cost of mediation until we are closer to D being final (6 month waiting period).

She didn't react well. She got all nuts about the fact that she still doesn't think she needs to work full time, etc etc. It kind of makes me wonder why we would use a mediator if she isn't going to listen. I guess the lesson here is to continue with the mediation/L and not try to deal with her directly - I should have known this but was trying to defer paying the retainer.

It is actually the first time that I told her "I want a D". I don't want to put up with her moving out indefinitely without some kind of closure on the table while she lives her single life. It just doesn't seem right - especially since she hasn't shown any interest in working on M in a year now. I feel like the M is in the final death throes - she could miraculously wake up when looking over the brink and decide what she has been doing is all wrong, but I am not hoping too hard for it and definitely not expecting it.

However, the closer I get to being a WAS the higher the probability of it actually happening I guess, so who knows.

[tryingtilDorR]

More journaling. I had told my BIL that we were going to see a mediator and that W wants to move out, etc. etc. He has been through a divorce so sometimes we talk. We actually were originally talking about something else but then he asked me how things were going with W. My ILs always ask me.

Needless to say, my W HATES when I talk to her family about what is going on and I try to avoid the subject unless I am point-blank asked for the most part.

Well, BIL told MIL about the mediator and I think SIL must have heard as well. They in turn mentioned it to her grandmother, the matriarch of the family. Grandmother has been calling me all week but I been avoiding her because I don't want to answer her questions, but I finally took her call yesterday.

She knew about the mediation appointment already, and point blank asked me questions about the situation and I didn't feel like lying to protect W.

Should I? I have in the past (she had asked if W sleeps in same bed as me anymore and I had lied and told her yes). She also said that she thinks W has someone else on the side, which I know to be true as well (no proof lately but I am not stupid), but didn't offer my opinion to her.

She is the type of person who will let her opinions be known and will let my W have it, but this always ends up backfiring on me so I avoid telling her things (so does my MIL).

W says talk to your OWN family about things, not hers, which is fair enough, but when they point-blank ask I almost feel like I have no choice unless I say "I don't want to talk about it".

It is weird because this is her implementation and is reality, so why lie about what's going on when they ask? Maybe it is none of their business, but she has told all of them that she isn't happy, hasn't been happy for 10 years, etc etc so these details about what is going on NOW shouldn't be a big secret I figure. It is not like they are being told lies or anything.

She gets mad because she says that I don't tell the whole story. What is the whole story? She doesn't sleep with me since I caught her talking to OM and told her to move out so that was her compromise. Does she really want them to know ALL that? I don't think so, but she is worried about defending her image to them I guess but there isn't much defense for what she is doing in their eyes and she knows it.

Lesson here is no matter what bad things happen to a WAW they will always find a way to blame you if you can be tied to it. In my case it is my 'big mouth', but again, my alternative is to say "I don't want to talk about it" I guess. Should I do her that favor?

[MrBond]

Nope. Don't deal with her at all. If she makes a big deal about her family, just shrug and say they called you. Then walk away. She'll get mad, but don't let her drag you into her own insecurities.

She did the crime, it's time to deal with the consequences. It's amazing how many WASs are fine at blaming their LBS for things, but once they are called out on their sh*t by their own family, suddenly we aren't allowed to talk about it.

It comes down to one thing...control. She is trying to control the situation, but she's going to have to learn that she can't. She has to learn to take responsiblity for her actions. It's not your job to do so. She didn't respect you by having an A, so you don't have to honor her wishes. I think an A is much worse than talking to family. Don't you agree?